Transcript

Advice Line with Alexa Hirschfeld of Paperless Post

0:09 Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show. Who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you like help with. All right, let's get to it. Joining me this week is Alexa Hirschfeld. She's a co-founder along with her brother James of Paperless Post. It's an online invitation company. Alexa, it's great to have you back on the show. It's great to be here. Thank you for having me. And I apologize for my voice, battling a cold, but but I'm feeling great. So

0:54 Alexa, you were first on High Belt as you never brother on it in twenty twenty four. And you guys got this idea and it was that you wanted to kind of recreate the beauty of a physical invitation, but to do it online. And now Almost twenty years later, like hundreds of millions of invitations have been sent. Um it is

1:13 a great story and and if you guys haven't heard it we'll put a link to it in the show notes. I mean I remember we talked about this when you were on the show because One of the things that makes paperless post Unique many things, but one of the things is you have no ads on the websites or in the invitations. People Pay.

1:29 to use your designs and your service and it it really feels like a h like a high end invitation, um you know, like something you get in the mail. Uh we've used paperless post for so many important occasions in our lives. My my wife's fiftieth birthday party last year, for example, and They're so beautifully designed. I'm sure, you know, you get this all the time where people are saying, Well, you know, AI is gonna be coming for this for design and for creativity and and I know that you also have some AI technology that you're working with to help people design cards. But I wonder how you think about sort of protecting

2:04 the business, so it's you know, it's thriving in in ten or Of course, yeah. I am an a a real believer. I think AI is pretty amazing and I think it can be An accelerator of human creativity.

2:18 rather than, you know, a replacement for human creativity. I think that having more AI generated content. uh in on the internet and in the world is also going to create more of a demand for Human

2:33 created content and for really it's just gonna raise the bar for Quality? Mm-hmm. For us Specifically Um

2:43 The way that we are really focused on using AI at the moment. is in Taking work that users don't need to do out of the process of designing.

2:55 We're working on ways of collapsing steps and taking time out of the process of customizing. But enabling people still to put their fingerprint on the design. Yeah. Um you you put out a a blog post um late last year about Loneliness. People are not

3:12 spending time with other people for obvious reasons. People are on screens and communicating through screens. And you wrote a blog post about this and How you're trying to Do your part, I guess, as a business. in trying to get people to hang out more casually, just to have like you know, spontaneous parties or get together or gatherings.

3:30 Yeah. I think that for a lot of reasons People haven't been prioritizing spending time with

3:39 real friends and family in person because They have this idea that They are keeping in touch with friends and family by seeing kind of Images and stories and holograms of their friends online and

3:52 different types of social media. And I remember after Covid seeing my friends at at at you know I was actually at a wedding And thinking, wow.

4:03 You know you're so much funnier and more nuanced and sensitive and interesting than than I than I remember and then what I was getting from you in exclusively You know online form. I think real life makes people more dimensional and

4:19 just better than they are when they're kind of like Mm-hmm. just represented in two dimensions. And so my advice is to really prioritize that type of interaction.

4:30 With the people in your life? Yeah, absolutely. And so you guys are I guess trying to w in introduce a product that's that's trying to Sort of create a more informal invitation, right? Because when you get a paperless post, I think people think, oh, this is a a formal

4:47 party or you know but you you guys introduced something called the flyer, which is I guess designed to be texted, right? Not not necessarily emailed. So Fire yeah, Fire can be all of our invitations can be texted, but you're absolutely right that Flyer is a more casual, lighter weight version of our of of of of a paperless post that is um less expensive than our classic product. There's a lot of free options.

5:11 It's for people who want to express the aesthetic of their party. But Not express that it's gonna be a wedding necessarily. It just maybe it's just a potluck at your house for a friendsgiving and what we wanna do is enable people to

5:25 have more parties that don't need to be a big deal. Because Then you'll do it more. Yeah. Um, Alexa, what do you say? Should we take a call?

5:35 Let's do it. All right, let's bring our first caller. Welcome to the advice line, you're on with Alexa Hirschfeld. Co founder of Paperless Post, please tell us your name. Where you're calling from and just a little bit about your business. Hey guy, hi Alexa. I'm Jess Walker in Washington State, and I'm the founder of Five Dot Post, a greeting card brand that specializes in cancer support, grief, and empathy driven cards. Awesome. Thanks for calling in, Jessica. Tel tell us more about the cards. How what do they

6:02 When you get one, what do they look like? So I came up with this idea in twenty eighteen, um, shortly after my late husband was diagnosed with cancer in our mid twenties. Um, the support cards we were seeing in the cancer space really felt like they resonated with a different demographic and we were young and we were fighting this in a way where you use like humor and and it was just different. So the cards that I created, specifically in the cancer space, really lean into that using humor as medicine, like if you can't laugh about it, it can be too heavy, that kind of energy. And it really resonated with the cancer community in general. Wow.

6:40 Um, and it's grown beyond the scope of just cancer cards. Uh we have full year round seasonal everyday cards. It's a a much wider scope at this point, but receiving a card that really resonates because it's It's written by someone who's really been there and and that's been the heart of all of our cards. Hm I You know

6:58 I know that a lot of people have experiences where Cancer comes into your life somehow. A friend or a somebody in your family or somebody you love and it's really hard, you don't know what to say. You don't know how to react or respond. You don't It's

7:14 And you don't want to say the wrong thing. I've talked to to people who are survivors and and and they'll say I the worst thing I heard was when people are like, We're gonna beat this together. You know, some some people but some people do want to hear that. Um and I'm looking at your cards and they're so great. They're so creative. Chemo is tough, but I know someone tougher, cancer can suck it. Um Cancer has no idea what it's coming for. This is so shitty, I'm here for anything you need on a card. What a great idea. I love this. It's just what you actually want to hear when you're going through it. Sometimes you don't wanna see a sad flower that just says get better. You wanna hear what you're thinking, you want to have that reflected to you and to to what you said.

7:52 the main goal of Five Dot Post was to lower the barrier to entry to support someone because you get nervous to say the wrong thing and I wanna make it to where We provide the words for you so you can just go ahead and s and be the supporter. You don't have to be scared to say the wrong thing. And to be honest, you're never gonna say the wrong thing. Like it might Resonate more or less, but it's it's they just want you to show up and we just want to make showing up easier. Yeah. And so you expanded this to birthdays and graduations and father's day and mother's day and and do you do you write all the cards? Ideal. Um, I am the designer for everything. I come up with all the words. Um, we've recently expanded in the last few years to

8:31 I don't have to do everything now. Um, I have a fulfillment center. We're in about uh seven hundred small retailers around the country as well as national retailers. Um, but I am still the designer for everything and they're all my words. How's the business doing? Give us a sense of what you guys are doing in sales. Yeah, um the last two years we've been about uh three hundred and fifty thousand both twenty twenty four and twenty twenty five. Um and it's We're in a bit of a transition year where this year um I

8:59 have entered a a partnership with a pet brand called Sweetpaws, Marissa Gurdy and she's actually been on the advice line for years. She was on the advice line the chew she makes the cheese rings for dogs. Exactly. The teethers, yes. The teethers at a trade show last year and decided to do pet sympathy cards, taking what I do really well, what she does really well. We created this collaboration. Um It is grown. exponentially in the first twelve months. And um that partnership is we're now on Chewy. Um we won three golden tickets at Walmart's open call and in a few weeks we're gonna be launched at every Petco nationwide. So um Yeah, so we're in a huge growth spurt right now. So Justin PO's for that partnership. It's already exceeded last year's revenue just

9:45 in January of this year. So Amazing. It's an interesting time to be running my business. Wow, I love this idea. I mean pet sympathy cars and to to do them well. So um before we Jump in a little bit. further what's your uh tell us what your question is for us. My question is when a collaboration like Sweet Paws by Five Dot Post, which is what we've been

10:07 calling it fr with all these new retailers. When it grows beyond its original scope, how do you decide whether to keep that combined brand name or evolve it into a standalone identity and are there benefits to maintaining a visible connection to the original brands. versus creating something totally new. All right, so you've got sweet paws with with your brand with five dot

10:29 Post and And Alexa, you've done a bunch of collabs. You've done collabs with Martha Stewart. Uh Richard Scary, the Richard Scary books that are incredible cars and trucks and things that go. It's an amazing collaboration you guys are doing at Paperless Post. Uh what I mean collaborations are

10:45 to scale a brand, an idea. Uh but There's You know.

10:52 questions and and and things that you've got to figure out. As as they come. Yeah, congratulations. It's really an amazing story. And congratulations on the the traction also that you're seeing recently. And I think

11:05 My first question for you To understand how to better answer yours is How much Brand recognition. Do you believe that

11:16 Your original Five dot post. brand has I think that's a great point. when we first started, we didn't know it would take off. So we were like

11:27 people will find these cards and then that will create the opportunity to send customers to both of our respective businesses. We thought that was like a positive marketing tool and we're now seeing just as we're We're launching this stuff that it's it's a little confusing for customers'cause they're like, who's

11:45 What like it's also quite wordy, sweet paws by five dot posts. So we're we're just trying to decide maybe this is a bigger thing than either of our respective brands. Even though we've both had success in our own worlds, perhaps it makes sense just to create it. As a separate. Identity. 'Cause to your point it does seem like it it is growing

12:06 at a more exponential rate than either of our our respective businesses at this point. How have you how have you set up the collaboration? It it's is it under five dot post? Uh or is it a separate Yeah, we have a separate LLC that is sweet paws by five dot post and we're both fifty percent owners of that LLC. And so I mean, I guess the question is

12:26 If this business Is is really sort of gonna blow up and and and growth I mean I I was looking at I mean this is a

12:37 $30 billion global business is a huge accessories. That doesn't include food or, you know, dog other dog care products. It's just accessories. So You're talking about a huge market and I wonder whether it's it it would just be worth Kind of

12:54 creating a new brand around this and really focusing on that this is a is a is a separate business. I think that makes a lot of sense and and again to your point, we we also we started with cards and then we also have giftable lifestyle products as well, like accessories and things. So it's like there are gonna be a lot of products under this new entities. So I do think maybe what you're saying to Have it be its own standalone.

13:21 Would make A lot more sense to consumer. I guess the the other question I have is how important the brand is for the sales of five dot post. And if it is important And you wanna have a brand that makes sense.

13:34 For your product line and this collaboration. The other thing you could do is Keep five dot post. Create a a brand that makes sense for this new collaboration and have them both live under

13:47 an umbrella company which doesn't need to have a consumer facing brand, but you could imagine spinning off other brands underneath that that are owned by that umbrella company. That really speak to

14:01 customers um in different moments in our life with different you know different needs That's a really cool idea. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, in other words, you've got your human brand, right, which is your which is five dot post, and then you've got your animal brand, which is which is a uh this new entity. Um and uh and by the way, h how are you thinking about protecting your

14:26 designs and your you know in your IP for example. I mean is I I don't know. Alexa, is it I mean in in in sort of the With what you do and and your designs and even the things that you guys write, can you can you protect those things? So You can protect them. I don't if we're talking about

14:45 Patents, um It it's not gonna stop. other people for tr from trying to copy your product, especially From a design perspective, it's it's really easy for A copycat to go right up to the edges of what's legally acceptable and offer a knock off product.

15:00 I don't think that Any Other provider of products is gonna be as good a version of you as you are. I think that

15:11 You sh probably shouldn't spend time worrying about Patenting. Designs. you should focus on continuing to innovate and to offer this full

15:22 authentic experience which You really have and I think Copycat's They might look like your product, but I think for the people that are

15:33 that are really looking to to buy something that that is gonna send the right message to the to the other person. They're actually they're gonna pay attention to the details and I think in many cases consumers aren't as easy to trick and pandering to them with copycat.

15:50 Inauthentic messages. It's just It's not as effective as copycuts might think. I really appreciate you saying that and I think that's Great advice because I have copycats. It it ha it feels like whack a mole. Like I have s a handful of trademarks, but there's really not a whole lot you can do other than spending

16:08 hours of your very valuable time as a CEO trying to reach out to have them removed and and have cease and desist and and I think what you're saying is really powerful, because you're right. It is it's not just the sentiment. It's not just the image. It really is the whole experience. And I think that's gonna be A large part too with this new business is creating that experience for these pet parents and celebrating their identity as a pet owner and not just I got this that says like I heard my dog. It's it really resonates with who they are as a person.

16:40 And also the brand that it's coming from and the story of the brand that it's coming from. Is something that uh you know, copycats aren't gonna as authentically Tell a story around.

16:53 I think that also is an argument for keeping Five dot post what it is and having the story behind that brand and with the new collaboration having the right story behind that brand because that's something that's really hard for like an AI copycat to you know, authentically communicate. Yeah, absolutely. Uh Jess Walker, the brand is called Five Dot Post, congrats. Uh what a great

17:17 I D I love I love it. Love what you're doing. Uh keep us posted. Good luck. Thanks so much. Thank you. We're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, another collar, another question, and another round of advice. I'm Guy Raw, stick around, you're listening to the device line on how I built this lab. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Roz, battling a cold

17:55 But I'm getting better. Uh, my guest today is Alexa Hirschfeld, co founder of Paperless Post. Uh and Alexa, you ready for our next call? Absolutely. Alright, let's bring our next caller. Welcome to The Advice Line. You're on with Alexa Hirschfeld, the co-founder of Paperless Post. Tell us your name where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business. Hi, my name is

18:13 Carolyn Horeski, I live in Crested Butte, Colorado, and the name of my company is The Creative Garland Company. At the Creative Garland Company, we create decorative garlands that are known for their distinctive designs, sparking conversations, and elevating otherwise ordinary decor. Think ski chair left garlands with dogs and cats as riders. Upside down sleeping back garlands. Bicycle garlands, just to name a few.

18:37 All right, Carolyn, welcome to the show. Thanks for calling in the Creative Garland Company. Okay, I'm I'm embarrassed to admit this. I was like, What's a garland again? And then I went on your website and I was like, Oh, that's a garland. So Can you just can you just indulge me for a moment for the five people listening who don't know what a garland is? Can you describe what it is? Sure. Well, I think most people when they hear garland, they think of the nice floral, beautiful uh garland, um on a line so that you would decorate an area a lot of times for weddings, parties, things like that.

19:08 And they're made out of paper, like Cut paper. Yeah, really thick cardstock paper. As well as I've just started getting into making some out of acrylic as well, but most of them right now are cardstock. Cool. All right. And t tell me about the business. How did you come up with this idea. I didn't I mean it it's cool. I'm looking at all the things that you make and Do you have a background in crafts and

19:30 Well, it all started during the pandemic and my daughter wanted one of those little cricket machines that you could cut paper and make stick she wanted to make stickers and you know, of course, being a little kid, she got bored with it within two weeks. I took it over. Uh started getting into paper art and design selling at our local farmers market. And then uh w for one Christmas market I came up with this chairlift garland idea and it sold out. Chair like ski chairlifts. Yeah, and so I thought I was on to something and I just Took that idea and kept growing it. It's so cool. So you are so you've got I'm looking at your site, you've got all kinds of garlands, wedding garlands, bride and grooms. Do you um sell I'm assuming only through your website?

20:11 I thought through my website I also do wholesale and then I've still been doing in person markets um locally and then statewide as well. And and tell me a little bit about how the business did in twenty twenty five. It did. Well, we're growing you know, I would say that I really started this business in the spring of twenty twenty four. Um, that's when I got a new machine, started working on it, and um so last year was

20:37 My full first full year in business, I would say, and It did About forty three thousand in sales, which I was pretty happy with, and I just keeps growing. And you are making all this yourself in Crested Butte? Yes.

20:53 So you get like all the paper stock sent to you and then you have like in your garage you've got Or you've you're just constantly Cause it's it's These are hand cut and then you're putting them on the twine yourself? Uh I used to put'em on the twine. I am now packing the twine with the objects so that the end user can do it. That's the thing it's fully adjustable to, so you can move the objects to fit your space. But you're still cutting every single one.

21:19 Yes. Wow. That's a lot of work. Okay. What's your question for us? Okay, so my business has reached a point where I can no longer handle production on my own. How should I evaluate the decision between building an in-house production team and workspace versus outsourcing manufacturing?

21:37 All while protecting product quality, brand identity, and the creative flexibility that got me here. Okay. Alexa. Thoughts for Carolyn. My thoughts for you First of all our

21:51 That I don't know that it's really this In house versus outsourcing question that you need to answer. I think that Especially for creative brands, it's it's more sequence and hybrid than that.

22:04 So My advice is to think about what Do you have to do And what things that you currently do are repeatable and you personally

22:16 Don't need to do. Uh so for example you know, concept and design. Um ideas New SKUs, limited runs.

22:27 That's probably one type of thing you do. Then there's the production of the components, like cutting, printing, raw materials, probably there's Assembling and Finishing, like s you know, string sorting, And With then there's fulfillment packaging, et cetera.

22:42 And I think the question is You know, if something defines your brand, it needs your taste, if it changes often That's the kind of thing you should keep close. But if it is consistent and repeatable, systematize it. Um

22:57 You know, I think you are already scaling your business and so you're you're just you need to decide what has to stare at Tisal on what can become a system. Okay. Yeah.

23:07 Yeah, I I I totally agree. I mean you have a y what you're bringing to this, I'm assuming, are the designs, right? You are designing everything. And that's the part I love. I love doing that and I love Creating new ideas and they just come to me all the time. It's just the time I don't have to do everything that So your thing your your question is should I outsource this? Like should I send the production elsewhere?

23:28 Or not. And I I guess if somebody else worked with you part time And did them out of your garage, would that be a solution or not really? Yes, it would be. Uh I need to get out of the garage. I do have a space down the road that I'm looking at that hopefully Well come to fruition and I can rent that out.

23:48 A little in Gunnison, about thirty miles down the road. So I I think that you have an opportunity, right? to as as Alexa said, to find I mean maybe you're small, you're doing forty five thousand dollars, but clearly you're growing and there's demand. And so you may be in a position to hire Somebody hourly. part time.

24:07 to do those kinds of things, right? Because when you're talking about Outsourcing. You're talking about a whole different world. It's like l you got long lead times and there's minimum orders that you quantities that you've got to order. And they can't be as flexible. Like now you can just turn on a dime. If someone's like, Hey, you know, I'm

24:28 throwing a a party for my wife's fiftieth and she loves musicals. Can you make garlands? You can do that right away. You can make something like that. En so The minute you outsource it. It's it's trickier, I mean, and you can really only outsource once the variability of your product is low.

24:49 Like what people are ordering, the demand is predictable. Like if if if the sleighs account are accounting for sixty or seventy percent of your business. Then that might be a time to think about doing it. I agree with that. I think also that the part time suggestion is really smart. What's nice about part time hires that it's sort of an extended interview where you can see

25:11 Is it working or is it not? And if it's working then That is just the best way of vetting. um the quality of your working relationship with somebody is actually working with them. So That's a nice thing. Also, you know, less commitment. Another thing

25:28 I might consider is Are are there certain parts of your process that those skills are required for manufacturing something else that maybe local Like the cutting, for example, are there other products that need to be cut in a similar way where you could find someone who w who you aren't just training from the ground up, but actually they have Skills in that

25:49 part of the production process that you could leverage I think that putting your creativity towards figuring out What? parts of what you're currently doing in house you can start to

26:01 hire somebody else to do would be a a good use of time. Okay. Yeah. These are so cool. And by the way, I think your Your prices are pretty

26:13 I mean are you Is that standard? I mean it's you know, twenty five, thirty bucks for One of these handmade Garlands? Well, I love that you say that because some of the feedback I get is the opposite. That some people think it's a little bit too expensive. Uh, but I always have to reiterate to them that hey, it's you know, it's handmade, it's made in the USA. Um

26:33 kind of drive those points through. So So so it sounds like right now you are you know, you are in a uh in a great position to kind of grow incrementally and and find somebody part time. I mean uh that could be helpful to get somebody to start doing it and to enable you to go to the trade shows and to

26:51 to do more business development and design. Yes, I love that idea and I love That idea of having the part time person kind of vetting them as we go and and seeing how they could work out if if it ended up being a good fit. Awesome. Uh Alexa, any last

27:07 Thoughts, w words of wisdom for Carolyn? I think that You know you should just think about how you can make your job into the part that you love and that you're really excellent at.

27:19 And Use some of your creativity to figure out how you can solve for the other steps of the process. that you know well, you can do well, but you don't have to be the one to do well. Okay.

27:32 Yeah. Awesome. Awesome, congrats, uh Carolyn, on on this idea. It's really, really cool stuff. Uh the Creative Garland Company, uh thanks for calling in. Thank you so much. Congratulations. Thank you.

27:43 Bye. Stay with us because after the break, we'll talk to another founder working to take their business to the next level. That's after the break. I'm Guy Roz and you're listening to the advice line right here on how I built this lab. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. And today I'm taking your calls with Alexa Hirschfeld, co-founder of Paperless Post. Alright, let's bring on our next caller. Uh hello, welcome to the advice line. You're on with Alexa Hirschfeld.

28:26 Co-founder of Paperless Post, tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business. Hi Alexa and hi guy, my name is Sayuri Tsuchitani. I am calling from Los Angeles, California. Sumo Yoga is a unique yoga concept that redefine body positivity by empowering individuals to feel strong. grounded and fully accept their own bodies. Cool. All right. Well welcome to the show, sir. So it's a sumo yoga. So tell me what it's your product that you're selling.

28:56 I am selling um Tatami Yoga Man. Tatami ago like Tatami those straw floors like that you find in traditional Japanese homes. Yes. Yes, yes. Got it. Okay.

29:08 And so tell me a little bit about about this business. How did it Start I'm assuming you are You you are yoga. practitioner. Uh yes. Um I love uh yoga and um I go to studio religiously but um there's always w The one thing that bothers me

29:25 The smell of yoga mat. Mm. And when w when I went back to Japan to vis visit my mom, I realized she hasn't changed the Tatami Glover since she first moved to The house. And there's are still fresh.

29:39 Clean and comforting after all those years. And I decide to create the Tatami Yoga Ma. With my experience with my uh

29:50 Uh going up. In Japan. So so you are importing these yoga mats from Japan? Yes, I am making in Fukoka, Japan, and importing to United States, yes. And and I I just spent

30:06 Two and a half weeks in Japan and stayed in a in a Ryuken with Tatami. floors and it was incredible. And I wish I live there all the time.

30:16 Um so I know how amazing It's like a grass, right? And it's woven and secure like And tell me a little bit about your business so far. Where are you You're selling these online, are you selling them anywhere else?

30:29 I am selling This at a little Tokyo farmers market. Every Saturday. Got it. And how are they doing so far? What's been the the response? So far, um

30:41 I sold uh my neck loss is two hundred five twenty five hundred dollars at the moment, so it's slow store. Um, but I mean also in a US sumo community. and they're uh liking my product. And and tell me w a a little bit about this idea of sumo yoga, like obviously

31:02 I know what a sumo wrestler is and I'm looking at your website and there are the first thing you see is a sumo wrestler. W what is that what's the idea around sumo and yoga? Yeah, so I grew up w um watching Sumo on TV with my great grandmother. And then late years later Um, I

31:20 Start doing all sumo and yoga combined and I create this Suboyoga concept, which is the Squat base. which is called Shiko. And that's flat based yoga.

31:32 Yeah, some more squat, basically, mm-hmm to the West, yeah. Mm-hmm. Nice. Uh, I love sumo squats. Very very Good for you.

31:40 So So so it sounds like you're you've got uh this concept of like Uh the sort of a a brand concept, but you're starting with And so do you have this idea of other products that you w want to create or like a a yoga studio or a

31:58 a a kind of a a type of yoga that you want to Promoter create. I like to create a little bit more um product base and um I am working on making a huroshiki uh yoga carrier which is the P Thob cloth. wrapping with a Japanese rush ki way. And also I'm looking for um

32:20 Creating a um Tatami box. So that you can use wood while you're doing a yoga sequences. And and how much are the mats? How much do they cost? Uh one ninety nine.

32:32 One ninety nine per mat. Okay. And and before I bring Alexia in, uh tell us your question for us. Yes, um my question is um sumo yoga is um familiar to many people, making education essential to its growth. I want to explore the most effective tactic to educate a nationwide audience about sumo yoga while promoting body positivity and self acceptance and simultaneously drive e commerce of Titan Yoga. Alright, so a lot a lot that you want to do. You want to

33:03 You wanna educate people about sumo yoga, you want to promote body body positivity. And you want to sell your your yoga mats. Um, I wanna bring you in, uh Alexa. Any thoughts uh or questions or ideas for Sayuri? Yeah, so I think that education is essential here. And it's important that it's very crisp.

33:23 When something is unfamiliar People need a quick Mental you know, ask more questions and lean in and

33:33 I'd encourage you to Define sumo yoga early and consistently. So for example It's a yoga practice inspired by traditional suma movement, whatever the right words are. It's not wrestling.

33:48 It's designed to be accessible across body types and focused on strength, flexibility, balance, and confidence. Whatever the right words are, you'll know better than me. But I think that that definition up front helps people understand Who it's for and how it's different from other yoga practices or other wellness practices and I think one of the questions people will definitely ask is

34:09 Can I use this for all yoga? Right. And if the answer is yes. I think it's really important to say that clearly because it reduces friction and it will expand the audience pretty meaningfully. Um, and I think that the goal isn't to explain everything.

34:24 Needs to explain just enough so that if people's curiosity is is piqued and they wanna understand More Yes. Yeah, so you're I I agree. I mean I I I think about the yoga.

34:37 market. We've done many at leisure wear brands on the show. Lululemon and We're talking about If you if you think about yoga alone.

34:49 As a global market. It's a hundred in twenty billion dollar global industry. It is a massive industry, right? And if you wanna capture some of those consumers, I really think you want to lean into the mat. Sumo yoga can be the brand, and it can be

35:05 inspired by sumo wrestlers, but I I think you want to be careful not to confuse people because you you wanna make sure that people see these mats and think Oh, this is better than a you know, a a rubber mat or or whatever other material m you know mats are made out of. This doesn't smell. It's natural. It's from Japan. It's handmade.

35:27 And I think that that you want to kind of reverse what you're emphasizing here.'Cause I when I go to your website, I see a sumo wrestler And then I see mats that are two hundred dollars. And unless you know what tatami is. many people might think, well, a straw mat for two hundred bucks? I think

35:43 you want to explain why these are so special. The the artisanship that goes into them, the the the curing, the this particular kind of reeds that are used to make these mats, the the trained artisans who make them in a specific part of Japan. and how you are making them specifically for yoga and why it's a better experience. I think you really want to kind of reverse What you're emphasizing now. And focus on the mats and maybe Back into the sumo stuff.

36:14 later on. Does that make sense? Yes, it does make sense. Yeah. Definitely. I was also struggling how can deliver my message to the audiences. That was the main question as well, not just the selling the Tatan Yoga Mat. So it was very clear now. Mm-hmm. I completely agree with that. I think that it's very compelling And Relatable.

36:37 The story that you Said about it. Loving yoga, but Not loving the smell of the of the mats. And

36:45 than describing Your grandmother's Tatami Yoga Mat. Yeah. Alone is just very compelling.

36:54 I i it really is. It's a great story. I mean a lot of yoga mats are made from natural materials like rubber, But you know, people don't always like that. And here you have your life experience growing up in a home with tatami floors.

37:09 It has natural grip. It's Very durable. It's anti microbial or antibacterial, whatever it is. And it lasts forever.

37:18 And it's entirely natural. There's no synthetic materials. And and I think That Would appeal to a lot of people, especially the kinds of people who are part of this hundred and

37:30 twenty hundred thirty billion dollar global yoga industry. Yes. Yes. I completely agree.

37:37 So I think, Alexa, we have uh you've I think we've given uh uh uh Sayuri her marching orders here. Really lean in on the mats. And on what and what the benefits of the maths. Uh bar. Yeah, thank thank you so much. Thank you so much for your advice. Thank you.

37:54 Thank you so much for calling in, Sari. The brand is called Shimo Yoga. Uh good luck. Thanks for calling in. Thank you so much. Bye guy. Bye Alexa. Thank you. Thank you. Um Alexa, before I let you go, I want to ask you a question. I I've been asking all

38:08 the guests who come onto the advice line, which is if you could go back to, you know, two thousand nine when you and James started Paperless post and and it's a great story. We're gonna you know every everybody should should check it out because you guys have had a lot of ups and downs and some crisis moments as well, especially around COVID. If you could go back. to two thousand nine and give yourself advice on what you know now about how to run a business.

38:31 What What would have been helpful for you to know? Yeah. I think that Focus.

38:39 And always keeping the main thing. The main thing is a really Important piece of advice. I think there are a lot of Interesting ideas, it can be distractions.

38:52 Those can be experiments. I'm not saying don't experiment. There are a lot of scary things that happen like Competitors or Funding that doesn't come through or press that you don't like And I think

39:05 Instead of looking over your shoulder too much. At those Risks or those threats. Think about Why do you exist? What do you offer to your customers or to your your users, the people who need you and who need your product and who you wanna serve? And that's the main thing, and you have to just keep that

39:23 in mind the whole time, you know, we The world has changed so much since we started, but I think we know very well who we serve. To just stay focused on And

39:35 What you know, what the main thing is I think as sh as things evolve your it's a lot easier to roll with those changes and adapt. Yeah. For sure.

39:47 Um, Alexa, thank you so much for coming back on onto the show. It's great having you. So great to see you again, guy. Thank you so much. That's Paperless Post co-founder Alexa Hirschfeld. And by the way, if you haven't heard Alexa's original How I Built This Episode, uh go back and check it out. We'll put a link to it in the show notes. Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. And by the way, please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at guyroz.com or on Substack. And of course, if you are working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one-minute message that tells us a little bit about your business and the questions or issues that you're currently facing, because we would love to try and help you solve them. You can send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com.

40:29 Or call us at 1800-433-1298. Leave a message there, and make sure to tell us how to reach you, and we'll put all of this information in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Ramel Wood with music composed by Ramtina Rablui. It was edit by John Isabella. Our audio engineers were Debbie Daughtry, Cina Lafredo. Our production staff also includes Casey Herman, Sam Paulson, Alex Chung, Chris Massini, Carrie Thomson, Katherine Seifer, Neva Grant, Nor Gill, and Elaine Coates. I'm Guy Roz and you've been listening to the advice line right here on how I built this lab.