Building Wiz: the fastest-growing startup in history | Raaz Herzberg (CMO and VP Product Strategy)

0:00 You're one of the first ten employees, you're the first product manager it was. When you joined, the founders kind of didn't really have an idea figure out yet. When they landed on an idea and then ended up being wrong, ended up not working. Six weeks after you joined, there was a pivot. I mean no, we didn't really have like a solid product yet. We would have like ten to fifteen meetings every day with like potential customers. I was hired as a first product manager. I set in on those calls. I still did not exactly understand what we were gonna build. Which was confusing because I was a private manager, so I was supposed to start building it. And so at some point it was kind of like I have to ask, What exactly are we doing here? And that ended up like pivoting us around to cloud security. So things started to click a little bit more. You started seeing enthusiasm. Can you talk about just like what that phase was like? We really felt the type of questions change, right? Silly, the call sounded like Like again, how are you pricing this or when can we start doing a POV? I think naturally as human beings, you have a bias to look for affirmation versus like a bias to look for what you don't want to hear. You started as an engineer, you moved into product, and now you're in marketing, which is not a traditional path. I had a ton to learn about with marketing. But what I knew really well was

1:09 Today, my guest is Roz Herzberg. Roz is chief marketing officer and VP of product strategy at Wiz. Before moving into marketing, Roz was an engineer and then for most of her career was a product manager. Prior to Wiz, Raz led security products in Microsoft, including Azure Sentinel, and at Wiz she moved from VP a product to CMO. If you haven't heard of Wiz, it's not only the world's fastest growing security company,

1:35 It's also the fastest growing software company in history. Hitting a hundred million AR just eighteen months after founding. And then just under five years after founding was rumored to be exploring an acquisition by Google for over$23 billion. Even more wild, as you'll hear in our conversation, the team initially went in circles on what they wanted to build, and it took them a while to actually land on the idea that is basically the most intense product market fit of any B2B company ever. In our conversation, Ra shares what signals told her and the team that the original idea wasn't going to work.

2:09 And then what changed in their conversations when they finally found product market fit? why she moved into marketing and what she wished she knew as a product leader from her new marketing lens. Also her perspective on marketing and what marketing people often get wrong and why CMOs often fail. Also something she calls the dummy explanation. why you need to pay attention to where the heat is within the organization, she shares her most contrarian take on leadership, and so much more, this was such a fun episode, and there's so much to learn here for product leaders, for marketing leaders, and for founders. If you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe and follow it in your favorite podcasting app or YouTube.

2:44 It's the best way to avoid missing future episodes and helps the podcast tremendously. With that, I bring you Roz. Hersburg. Raz, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the podcast.

2:58 Thank you for having me. So I wanna start by giving a little context on Wiz for folks that aren't super familiar with the company. You launched just under five years ago at this point. Within eighteen months You all hit a hundred million ARR.

3:13 Which is the fastest growth rate in history of any software company. It's faster than the two other companies I've had on the podcast that also claim to be the fastest growing software companies. Deal and Ramp. You guys grew even faster. I read that you are at over five hundred million Air R now. I know it's also not confirmed, but uh a certain company that rhymes with uh Lugal

3:36 Offered to buy you guys for Uh twenty three billion dollars and you'll Turn that down, decided to stay private. And also something like fifty percent of Fortune One Hundred Companies. Our customers of Wiz.

3:49 Is there anything I missed? Anything I got wrong? Never heard of like That Noogle Company. But other than that. Yeah. Okay, great.

3:59 What's even crazier is in spite of that, when you join the company, you employ something like number seven. Yeah, we kind of started like um I feel like the founders and like the first like Six seven employees, we just started it once. This episode is brought to you by Work OS.

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6:37 dot com slash Lenny. That's rippling.com slash Lenny. Okay. So You're w for one of the first ten employees, you're the first product manager, it was Yeah. And what I read is that when you joined

6:49 The founders. really have an idea figure out yet. when they landed on an idea and then ended up being wrong, ended up not working. Six weeks after he joined, there was a pivot.

7:02 So the fact that that was true and you went from this like this isn't working to boom, a hundred million dollars AR. I wanna spend time here. 'Cause I think there's a lot people can learn here. So let me just ask you. Looking back at that.

7:16 Point when the idea wasn't working. to realizing, hey, maybe this is a better idea. What do you remember are some signals that told you this isn't working? And okay, maybe this is because a lot of founders are in that stage with their products. When when we started I it wasn't even Wiz the company was literally officially founded as Beyond Networks.

7:37 Um because there was this like idea of hey, we wanna do something In the network security space. Actually myself and the founding team and also the other like five engineers that started with us, we actually all came from a background of building cloud security products before. But this time it was like okay, we actually don't wanna do cloud security.

7:55 We wanna do. Network security. And then what's happened was that in those initial Like few weeks, you you kind of um it also we started with Literally, exactly.

8:08 Wiz was founded together with Covet. Like it was like that March when the wh whole world shut down and suddenly everything went like terribly, terribly strange on all of us. That's when Wiz started. So it was like Our days looked like talking to ten, fifteen

8:24 Um customers, Wiz is a B to B product. The buyer is um Is the C the CISO the people that the the person that owns basically security for the entire company. So we would have like ten to fifteen meetings every day with like potential customers. At the time, you know, we didn't really have like a solid product yet, but we kind of had like an idea and a deck explaining our idea.

8:45 in what we're gonna build and and why. We were all like a very technical group of people and especially our founding team, um A staff our CO at Wiz before Wiz he led the entire division of all of the Microsoft cloud security products. So They're very um very impressive, very technical.

9:07 Very well known and respected in the industry. And so You know, we would join a call. And kind of presents and walk through our idea. And the person on the other end would be like Oh, it sounds

9:19 Interesting. Oh yes, sound interesting. We'd love to hear more. Yes, perfect. Sounds interesting, we'd love to hear more. And You finished calls was like a a good feeling. Like the person said, Oh yes, interesting, interesting. But I was like you said, I was hired as a first product manager. And I set in on those calls.

9:37 Sometimes Like um officially participating, sometimes even not officially participating, but listening on all of the calls. And I finished like a couple of weeks of that, which is a lot of calls, like I think two weeks or something. And

9:51 I still did not exactly understand what we were Gonna build? Which was confusing because I was private manager, so I was supposed to you know, like start building it in some ways, like go to the dev team and start building it. And that was like a point where I felt like

10:08 I don't know. We are talking about exactly. Now I really thought I don't know what they're talking about. Like I thought they all understood

10:16 What we're building and I thought Every customer we had in the call In the center of two building. It's just that I did not understand what they were building. And so at some point that was kind of like Okay, I have I have to ask, like

10:29 What exactly Are we like In the details, right? Not in like um Describing a A big problem in like

10:36 A high level Big Potential approach to solving it, but like what exactly are we gonna are we doing here? And I think that um that ended up like opening um

10:49 A really deep discussion of okay, wait, maybe We are telling a bit of a broad story. And maybe the person on the other end is not gonna tell you. Like They're not incentivized to tell you you know why they

11:01 I don't know what you're talking about. It's really I guess they felt a bit like me in some ways and they were like, Oh, it's a really smart group of people and figure they're building something interesting. So yeah, interesting. They're not incentivized to like really dig deep dive into the problems, right? And so I think that opened up a a discussion for us and we kind of understood that we were Listening in the wrong way, maybe?

11:20 Um that you were looking for like positive reinforcements, but not really listening intently to like signs of deep enthusiasm. And that ended up like pivoting us around um to cloud security. There's so much to learn just from the short story and I wanna

11:34 Get into like what you started hearing that made it sound like, Okay, wait, maybe this is a better idea, but first of all, just the fact that you're doing ten to fifteen calls a day, you said? That was a bit of like In some weird way. Again, Wiz was founded in like that terrible march where the world close down. It seemed at the time like a really bad time to start

11:52 To start the company, right? Like markets or froze and everything Even my mom, which knows nothing about like what exactly I do or why. Even my mom, I mean I left Microsoft to deal with. Even my mom was like calling me and telling me this is not a good time to

12:05 But It ended up being in some ways like an advantage'cause everybody were were home like suddenly everybody were home. No meetings, no travel So suddenly Cells which are like

12:17 Busy people. Um and you know, we're we started it originally based in Tel Aviv, so we couldn't even fly, but suddenly it didn't matter because I mean everybody's home, so yeah, we took like ten, fifteen calls a day, back to back, back to back. I think that alone is an a really important lesson if just that's how you've discover something That isn't working slash find the thing that is working is do. Many, many calls. That is a lot of calls. I don't even know how someone has time to do ten to fifteen calls a day.

12:41 But again, I think that's how you do this. So I think that alone is a really important lesson for folks to take away. I love this point that Uh. People are gonna try to be nice to you, especially if they think you're really smart and especially if you're Uh describing things that sound

12:55 You know, that might be helpful to them. But What you're sharing is you need to not trust that That often is is deceiving.

13:03 Talk about what it felt like when it moved from just like, Oh, this is cool. This is nice. Uh and maybe yeah, let's talk more to like, oh, maybe this is actually something they'll buy. We really felt the type of questions change, right? Suddenly the call didn't end was like, Oh, this sounds super interesting. Sure, like please update me. I'd love to hear more. Silly, the call sounded like Wait.

13:22 Again, how are you pricing this? How much will this cost? Or wait, like When can we start doing a POV? How long is a POB? Or somebody would like finish the the call and be like, Okay, I know exactly who I need to connect you to in my team.

13:35 Those are like really Strong indications. That are the type of indications we learn to look for. Although there's something I think you know At the beginning of a

13:45 Of a company. It's very scary. I think naturally as human beings, you want to Get the formation from the other side. So You're actually

13:55 You have a bias to look for affirmation. Versus like a bias to look for what you don't want to hear. That's just natural being a person. So I felt like that is what we ended up really being in tune with like no I have to understand they're intenly interested.

14:11 Like they wanna connect and do somebody, they wanna know how much this costs And if somebody just tells you like you said, Oh, super cool, yeah. I wanna think this is a good sign, but I shouldn't. It's almost like you need to see them pushing for the next step, is what I'm hearing, is like Let's do a POV. What's the next step to do this? I want to connect you to this person to talk further about this versus just like oh yeah, this is awesome. Thank you. And then okay, bye.

14:34 Yeah, exactly. And and it also like In B to B That is really the process you have to take. Right? Like

14:41 After you You have to get connected to the actual team that will test the tools, will deploy it. Like there needs to be um real passion about doing something. And and I guess that is the difference. It's like real passion about hey, I want this right now. The other point you made is that you were the person like nobody was saying this thing that was kind of this elephant in the room almost of

15:02 What are we even building? I don't understand. What's happening here? I read somewhere that you were like you told I need I need to I need to quit. Like I don't understand of what this is and I'm not like the right person for this role and turned out nobody understood exactly what was going on. Can you share that story?

15:17 It's funny'cause it's a story that Um Some of the founders tell and they tell differently. Like they tell like She came to us and she was like We have to rethink it.

15:27 But that's really not how it um That was not my that was not my perspective at all, right? Like my perspective was genuinely Okay, I have to Confess. That was my perspective. It I was like I was so um

15:40 I was sure that I was the only one not understanding. It's hard to to kind of um Get the courage, I guess. Like sometimes it's hard to get the courage to say Actually, I don't understand. But

15:53 I think by now in my hair it's like my favorite question. I feel like I say I don't understand. A lot of times a day. And I think I sh

16:04 I think if you build a company with the right type of um Of culture in a sense. Then it's not a shame to say like I don't understand, or please explain again. It's It's having that culture in place has enabled it.

16:17 And I also have to say, like when I think of you know the founding team and the founding team in Wiz, Wiz is a very like flat organization in some ways. It's not about seniority. It's not it's really about driving impact and everybody can have a seat on the table and voices are heard. And I think it also reflects really highly about them.

16:35 You know kind of just giving me the the seat at the table in a sense to be even able to say I don't understand. Then when I'm saying I don't understand Not Actually being open to oh Maybe we have to also think again.

16:49 And I think that tells a lot about the culture even even to this day. But it's definitely For me it's a very learned quality over my progression of my career. Actually allowing myself to be more vulnerable, um, more more um More easier in saying I don't understand or I don't know. I love this lesson so much. One

17:07 Partly because you said it's really scary to be the person that's like I don't know understand, right? That puts you that's like a very vulnerable thing to say'cause they're like What? She doesn't get it? Maybe she's not as smart as we thought and you know That can't be easy to be the person doing that. Um the other thing is this reminds me of Tomer Cohen, LinkedIn CPO has this really great phrase.

17:26 We may be wrong, but we're not confused. I feel like that's exactly what you're saying here. Exactly, which is why I love this question to this day. Like I love it. I I do think that if something Is not

17:38 Easy to understand. Then Maybe it needs a bit more um Chewing on it. I love that.

17:47 Okay. So things started to click a little bit more. He started seeing enthusiasm. Can you talk about just like what that Phase was like and any lessons from just like that turn. To

17:57 Things are actually working. I have to say, I think the feeling Um after we made that switch like What ended up happening is that after that like Big conversation.

18:09 Understand we ended up having And this never happens. I don't think it's ever happened since it was. Like almost like a a long, like five hour discussion with all the founders where we decided to like move away from that. pivot to cloud security, which is what we Really? And someone's like, No best, that's our background. That's what we did before.

18:27 And we felt the problems there was so Big. And so Strong. Um And once we started

18:36 having the conversations with like The new ro like the new pivot to cloud security. The room felt so different. I mean it was all of a Zoom, right? But I mean our room. It felt very different. You could

18:49 Once we once we found the right Yeah. You could just it was so easy to distinguish it from the wrong path in some ways. Um because we did start getting those like strong signals and in some ways they pushed us for it.

19:02 Right? Like A customer was like, Okay, I want to start a POV and we're like, Oh Okay, sh of course. Let's get to them for like Thursday next week or something, right? Like we tried to um Even postponents a bit because we had to run fast.

19:15 Another learning I have from that from that phase was I w I explicitly remember that first conversation where it was like, Okay, let's do a P O V It was a Fortune ten company, a really big company. And we had, you know, a beginning of a product. We wanted to buy some time until we

19:31 Actually start the POB. And so Just because of that, we kinda said okay Also we wanna really understand like exactly What they will connect to us as part of the P O V because everything was so initial.

19:41 So We put this like long list of technical questions, like what are you using for this? What are you doing here? What are you uh? And On the one hand because we needed to know to actually build the thing, on the other hand, just because we wanted to buy time. And I was super scared. I remember sending that email and being like they want a P O V and now I'm like

19:59 gonna scare them away was this like list of things they have to do and list of questions like It's counterintuitive. But Actually It came back filled.

20:09 Um a day later And I remember my lesson being You know what? This is actually good. I want to make sure they're committed.

20:18 Right? I don't want to push somebody into a POV, if he is not committed to me at this stage, I mean It's not a well build product. It's gonna be a journey we take together. So they need to really

20:29 Wanted. I need that commitment from the other side. I'm not trying to push something on someone. Especially not at this point, in my opinion, not ever. Like not even today. Not even when you sell At large scales?

20:41 I'm not trying to push anybody to anything. I really want to make sure They want it. I have to feel that want back. Um, so that's just another learning for me. It's like First of all, when it works, it works. And you do know when it works. And the second, um Is Don't be too afraid to

20:56 um get the pull from the customer. Like it's okay. Like you need that pull from the other end as well. Don't push too hard. I know people always talk about like Look for pull. And I love that you're describing what pull looks like. Somebody's next day filling out a really complicated, annoying questionnaire because they just want this product they've never heard of before before you chatted with them and now they're like, it's give it to me now. I'm gonna do anything you need.

21:17 Is there anything else along these lines before we move into your current role and learnings? There. I I also think that like one of the things we did very um almost like uniquely It was was that because things started rolling so fast for us once we found like the right Pass.

21:33 We ended up selling before we had A solar steam. And we ended up like kind of almost in some ways always being behind. Right? Like Okay, I'm closing contract with people.

21:43 I haven't hired my first salesperson. I don't know what we're doing here. Like I don't And then we have to have the conversations. But we ended up learning so much from that, like from us ourselves. Us being the founders.

21:54 Um myself Closing the deals, like actually going all the way through contracts and everything by yourselves, kinda. We've learned we learned a lot. We learned a lot. And then when we hired our refer sales higher It was also like look, like we sold a couple of million of this. So you for sure as a salesperson, right? Like you you kind of give that confidence.

22:14 So I thought I felt like there was multiple pictures where that ended up happening just by accident because of how fast things ended up happening for us. And actually it was a really good learning experience to do it for the first time yourself. I think sometimes when you When you start building a company, you have this like wish But if you can't Do something, you're gonna hire the right person.

22:34 And he will be able to do it. Like okay. I feel like my message is not clear enough. And I we just started this company It's okay, I'm gonna hire my first product marketer and that's gonna be it. Or I feel like we can close a deal.

22:45 Okay, because I need to hire my first salesperson, that will be it. I I hardly find that I don't think we've we've ever had that work for us, honestly. It's like It's

22:55 If you can't do it one time and to end and you are like The core core core group. The chances of just bringing somebody from the outside to solve that problem It's wishful in some ways. I w but it it never ends up that way. I love this advice so much.

23:09 There's kinda like two parallels here. Like if the founder can do it, who has the most context and passion and And motivation. It's unlikely an employee's gonna be able to do it. And it's similar to the the selling. point that if your early customers aren't pulling from you.

23:25 later customers are not gonna have a good time, right? It's like the most passion comes early. How long did you all stay uh doing sales as a founding team. Like how many millions ARR roughly, do you remember? Oh, I a couple of million. I don't remember the exact million. Awesome. That's that's

23:44 That's incredible. Often the heuristic I hear is like one or two millionaire and then you start to hire salespeople. Okay. That was an awesome lesson. I love that. I wanna talk about your current role. So currently you're CMO and also VP of product strategy at Wiz.

23:59 You started as an engineer, you moved into product and now you're in marketing, which is not a traditional path, especially for product people. First of all, why did you decide to move into marketing from product? Yeah, it's not a traditional path. For anyone, I think. I also not one I would have necessarily like expected myself to be on. First of all, I it's not like I had this

24:20 Clan. Right. In general, I myself, people sometimes ask me about, you know, career progression and I never had a plan for anything that is just The only thing it did was like follow good people around. That's it.

24:33 I never had a plan for anything I do. Um and so myself Mo coming to ways was following a saf andan in the founding team. And like two and a half years into is

24:45 uh that time was was already like the it was a very clear product market fit. We had like Oh, revenues were already there, like we had um sales team that was fully functioning, but like at that point it was We felt Marketing was still

25:00 Something we didn't fully figure out. Like it wasn't working super well for us. We were at this stage where Yes, if there was a POV. a a proof of value happening, we would win it versus competition. But many times we would come to a customer and they would be like, Oh, I wish we heard

25:17 Of whiz we just signed with a competitor. Which like it breaks your heart, right? Because I I know I know they would have I know they would have chosen me had they heard about me in time. So it's you started feeling that challenge around awareness and and marketing. So two and a half years into the company, basically a staff, our CO asked me If I was willing to take on

25:38 Marketing. I remember he he like You know, like knocked on my uh Like

25:48 bothered me while I was working on my computer. And I and that and we went into this like super cold room. It was like When you are a fast growing startup, all of the rooms are always full, you know what I mean? So we went into this like server room. which is freezing cold and I was in the middle of something and told me, I think you should leave the marketing org now. I told him okay.

26:06 I was like a soft. I'm cold, I'm going back to work. I have a lot to do. It sounded that bizarre to me. I have never It's not only do they not know marketing. I spent my life in engineering.

26:17 And then product. It's not the go to market side even. I was never part of the go to market org. I have never heard of a lead in my life. I did not know the word pipeline. Like All those things were um very remote to me. Very um

26:31 And so it sounded like such a bizarre Motion, but that was like on a Thursday. Um and then I spend the weekend because he asked me to, and again, I just follow good people and do what they tell me to do. So I spent the weekend like listening to a ton of Podcasts talking to CMOs.

26:47 Just to even understand like what do CMOs do? Like what do marketing orgs do in B to B companies? And then they ended up deciding to just give it a try and We did not know if it was gonna Um work. I also don't know if it's gonna work forever, right? But like we ended up deciding to

27:02 Um give it a try and and I think the thing that's convinced me to do it was that in some ways I really felt like If in the early days of the company like finding product market fit is like a major block for the company. And then like building a sales organization becomes a major block for the company. I felt like we were at the point where You have to figure it out to scale.

27:23 Like at some point of every product people start looking really heavily at brand, whether we think that way or we don't. Like when when I buy my iPhone I have no idea. How it really is compared to an Android phone.

27:36 I did not look at the specs. I truly have no idea. So why do I bu like why do I buy an iPhone? I just know it's like the thing to buy. B to B products, even the most complex products, people are still people. They still buy it because Brand matters a lot. So

27:53 That was Part of what convinced me that this is super important. Um so I if the if I'm asked To attempt I'll at least

28:01 Try um I'll at least try because I do think it's really important. I l I love this I love the detail of the cold room, by the way. Uh Speaking of cold, when we were chatting earlier you had this really

28:12 beautiful metaphor of of heat and where heat is within organization. And how it shifts as the company grows. Can you share that? Yeah, it's it's exactly that. It's like that in the early, early days when we just started whiz, I remember I felt like the heat was in the product kitchen. 'Cause it's like everybody's

28:29 Waiting to have something people want Two. Start doing something, right? And then they felt like okay, you start you start understanding it and now the heat moves a bit to like the engineering side, like

28:40 Okay, build it. Somebody wants it to build it. Make it work. And then I felt

28:45 Okay, so we close a couple of deals now, right? We had our first few we we had our first like couple of clients. Now you bring in sales and the heat kind of goes to sales'cause they're like, Okay, we have this thing now go sell it. And then the heat starts moving. To marketing in my opinion, where it's like okay We have a five markets fit.

29:02 Salespeople can sell it, but they're but they're saying Give me more Pie Bye. Like hey. I'm nobody heard of Wiz Give Me More. So the heat kind of moves to marketing at that point. So in my That's kinda

29:13 I've always felt like Yeah, in some ways I also uh naturally kind of I guess follow the heap. And I think it's actually more so that they put the best people in the places that need the most uh help. And uh clearly that was you when they did that. This episode is brought to you by CloudNary.

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30:16 Start your free plan today at cloudnery.com slash Lenny. I asked. One of your board members, Shadow Shaw. What to ask you? Uh he's a partner at Index Ventures and here's here's what he told me. Speaking of kind of this move to marketing.

30:31 You said that when you were in your first board meeting the Wizboard meeting presenting marketing and sharing your plan. And you asked him Hey, can you introduce me to all these marketing leaders so I can learn from them? He he basically did the opposite. He's like, No, I'm gonna introduce all my marketing leaders to you because I think they need to learn from you.

30:49 Why do you think that's the case? I think she'd all very kind. Um It's

30:56 I even I I deeply remember that meeting'cause funny enough, it was my first board meeting ever. And that is a funny thing by itself,'cause Wiz is board, you know, we have Shadow on our board. We have Doug Leone and we have like Jeff from Insight's we have It's it's um

31:11 It's a very It's almost like it's very humbling to sit down in front of those people, period. And since I decided to take marketing and I took the CMO role This was also my first board meeting ever, and also it was like the meeting where it's like You know, in some ways

31:29 I was not that um I was like you know the Okay, we took our product m manager person. She was never a CMO with any company and now she is a CMO here. And so it's just like a very um

31:41 You know, the whole setting was very stressful for me, so I just ended up It was like I think the I think we just had the meeting like Two months after I took over marketing. And so it was more of like an update of like, hey, those are the changes I've made, and this is how I'm thinking of approaching this and this is all the things I've done in the past two months. It's funny because I'm a very non traditional marketer.

32:02 Just because I really don't know m marketing. Like at this point I kind of know already. 'Cause I've been doing it for two years and I read a lot and I but At that point I genuinely did not know. Like I could not even explain to you how untraditional my approach was in some ways. Um I just really did what I thought. I mean what I knew I have a ton to learn about marketing.

32:21 But what I knew really well was the problem we solved. And they really n your audience. So like I myself, I come from Security. I come from cloud security. I read all of the right Twitters and I follow all the right people on Twitter and I read all of the right blogs and I like

32:36 I know it's funny. I know what matters, like I know it's interesting right now. I I j generally because this is my space. I mean I live in that space truly as as um as a customer. So I was kinda like just Thinking okay, what are things I could do? to start fixing the problem that mattered most. And that was

32:56 Nobody heard a voice at that time. So those were just like I was like kind of saying okay, I think to in order to do that, they're willing to take chances. I'll just focus on making a lot of noise. I think even in those even in that like short time of two months.

33:11 We we saw like Changes happening already in some ways. Um so I I think I think that what Shadul meant by that, of course, although I do think he's being very, very kind, and they have learned a lot from many Many marketing people. Um

33:26 Including my own team, by the way, which is another interesting thing, right? Like it took over a large team of people who are marketers. And I'm just like Mm-hmm. Person knows nothing about marketing but will now manage this. So I learned a lot from many marketers, including my own um exceptional team.

33:41 But I think he meant really kind of looking at it differently and just thinking, okay What is the end to the goal of having the right people Hear the right thing about my company.

33:52 A S A P. Versus a ton of like I know a ton of like kind of traditional aspects of building pipelines and different things. I really did not know how to do at that time. So following that thread, I'm curious What is it that you think CMOs m mistake or often do wrong and why do you think

34:08 CMOs often don't work out and they've brought in someone like you with this very fresh perspective. What do you think what do you think folks often go wrong? First of all, I think CMO is a very Very hard roll. And also I think it's a role that is very hard to do without a lot of trust.

34:25 And without the deep connection to The founding team? Everything you do in marketing Is very visible. I mean

34:35 And and you're kind of touching something that matters so deeply to the founding team. And you're the one like representing it to the world. So It's It's very hard to

34:47 build that trust and it's very easy to break it. 'Cause like One bad add or something that one of the founding team will say, like, Oh, this is not us. This is like not what I mean. This is not the right thing. It breaks the trust really easily.

35:00 And I think it's especially challenging, I mean I really don't know how somebody that does not come from a From from a security background could kind of be successful. deeply in this type of a role for a company like Wiz. Because it is really about understanding your customers and it is really about understanding your product.

35:18 I think that's like very, very hard to to gain. So I guess I would kind of say I think it's like the trust the deep trust you need with the founding team and the really deep connection you need. to the product and to the market. And I think both of that

35:32 When you kind of come from The outside in a way,'cause you are not part of the founding team. And also you maybe come from outside the market sometimes'cause it's a very technical market or it's Or it's a very different domain. Then I think it's two really big challenges. I'm not saying you can't come over them, but I think it's just a very, very hard job.

35:50 And on top of that It's a very diverse job. Like when I was a product manager, I managed product managers. I know exactly. What they like, what they don't like, that's my audience. I know who to hire, I have the best network, I know every single PM and security.

36:03 Around me like It's so different. When you're a marketing leader, you manage Like You manage performance marketing, which is A numbers game. You manage designers and brand.

36:13 And then the man is like events and field, like there's nothing in between those things that is deeply correlated. And so it's just a very, very challenging and very interesting role. This trust point is so interesting, especially Based on what you said earlier, where the what you want it to do is

36:29 Create noise, take some risks. That's extra hard if you're not someone that the founding team Trust. Can you share some of the things you did that helped create noise and get the Wiz name out there that might inspire folks of like oh that was really That was really cool. We should do something like that.

36:43 Yeah, another like insight I had about marketing in the early days was how different it is from product. As a product manager, I was always And still believe it's so important to think Really hard about everything you add. Like less is more.

36:59 If you decide to build a feature. In the product. Then A, you're taking engineering time, which is a most valuable resource In every company, in my opinion. And B

37:08 In some ways you can never take it back. Like it's complicated your product. Even if one customer likes it and uses it, at least it'd be to be You're never gonna be able to like suddenly take it away. And every new product you add to your product will ha like every new feature you add to your product You will have to think about okay, how does it work with that feature.

37:25 So it's like making a mistake, like adding something to the product that is not the right thing, or that is not truly, truly what your customer needed, even if it's what they asked for. But if it's not what they truly needed. It has A huge cost, like a huge cost associated with it. Marketing is quite the opposite in my opinion. There's no cost to anything, no maintenance to anything.

37:45 No technical depth, no anything. Like if tomorrow I post a video on Wiz's LinkedIn page. And I think that video is super funny. And nobody likes that video. Nothing happened. Tomorrow I'll post a different video.

37:56 No maintenance. Bye bye. Forgot it ever happened. So in some ways it kind of dawned on me how Opposite of Things were.

38:04 And I was kinda like, Okay, we have to just like use it to our advantage. Like let's try everything. Let's try everything. I'm trying to make noise. It was right before like um when I took over, it was like before RSA. RSA is like the super ball of security companies. So it's where every vendors come to kind of showcase Um

38:21 And all our buyers are there. And you kind of, you know, you know how those conferences go, you kind of pay for having a space assigned to you. It's like a very expensive. space to assign to yourself. And we had the exact same spot we had

38:35 The year before. And I said, Okay, it's like c like it's a booth at a conference, I'll just make it the weirdest booth ever. Cause my goal is just having people look and be like Oh, what is whiz? Right? Because they've never heard of me.

38:48 So instead of doing like a classical um cyber booth, I decided to say, Okay, let's scrap our booth and do a Wiz of Oz booth. Which literally looked like a Wiz of Oz booth and we had actors like Dorothy and like all those things like Hanging around there. And it looked nothing. Nothing, like any boost in the show.

39:07 Which is a cybersecurity show things are like red and black and like people with hoodies. And we decided to take a completely opposite approach. In general, I also decided that we're gonna take a completely opposite approach was brand. I wanted Wizards Brown to again My first motive stand out. So I wanted Wiz to have like

39:25 A very positive, optimistic type of brand. So I went all in on like Scrap whatever we were doing before, which was like Dark and go pink.

39:35 Go bright blue. Always go optimistic and and focus on like magic. Not scaring people from attacks, but magic. And that ended up like an It was scary, don't get me wrong.

39:45 I half of me was like I remember feeling um So scared walking to the show. To the floor train? So it's like is this gonna be the most

39:55 Terrible, bizarre. Are people gonna be like What? Is she thinking? So I knew it could either be like a failure or a hit.

40:04 And it ended up Like it. The amount of people that stopped by our booth was like Um five times the amount of people that stopped by the year before. And it's the exact same space, the exact same Investment'cause

40:15 You invest in the space. But also ever since we uh we do s themed boothes, like every time we change themes to keep it fun. At this point you will see other cyber companies even doing themes'cause like We were just like, Okay, we'll do whatever it takes to make noise and this is just one example. That is an amazing story.

40:31 Uh and you said that other companies now try to do something similar. Right. Mm. Oh man. So along these lines, when we were chatting earlier, you sure that you kind of have this mindset of being very okay with failing.

40:44 That's kind of a core part of you. And it feels like that comes up again and again in the stories you share where you just try stuff and you're okay if it doesn't work out. You just talk about That part and why that's so important. Almost every single thing I've done. In my

40:58 career in some ways. Even before. I never thought I was gonna be successful in it. And so I guess, you know, there is um There's a lot of times it's like a lot of talk about like being more confident in yourself.

41:12 I don't know, at least for me, I don't really know if that's like a a real option. Okay. I just know that I'm kind of okay with being Pretty sure I'm gonna fail at something and still attempting it. That is that is like the thing that has grown in me. Um we're

41:28 It you know, when I took the job it was I was sure they're gonna f like I was sure they got confused that they offered to take me with them. I was certain that it's gonna be like okay, they're gonna figure out the I'm not the right fit for that like super smart and talented group of people. who have all worked together before, by the way. I was sure they're gonna like find me out.

41:48 And I was sure it was gonna I was pretty sure it was gonna fail, but I I will still take it, like right? So it's like I thought I was gonna fill up the product manager role too, although I did have the experience. So that also makes it easier to move in some ways if I think I'm gonna fail with anything. I'm like, Okay, whatever, I'll try. Um and and I think over time it yeah, it releases you a bit. Like sure, I might fail.

42:08 By the way. I might still fail. It's also fine. Like It it's it even in my current role, right? Like probably not for every scale it will make sense for me to do it. Um But that's also fine. Like it it's still just giving yourself the opportunity to fail.

42:23 That is really empowering. Is there anything that helps you build that skill?'Cause that's not natural to a lot of people. uh being okay with failure and leaning into things that they're they think they will probably fail at. Where did that come from for you? You know, depending on like uh what you believe in, everything comes from childhood. So in some ways like I do think it has to do with um Um like the way I was um I think the the the way my mom kind of raised me

42:46 My mom really believed that like if you're good at something So that's not where you should invest your energy. Like she really believed in like kind of pushing us, um Like pushing us to the places where we're less um confident in, I guess. I mean, I was a very um I was a very shy kid. My natural inclination

43:05 As a young kid was like Close the door in my room. read the book. I had no interest in like meeting other kids or doing sports or like nothing, nothing really. Like a super, super Shy and I think also slightly unsocial by nature, r really. But so m for my mom, she could have been like, Oh, so she's really good with like books and math and

43:23 So let's focus like let's Let's Perfect. Like let her build up a skill and be really good with that. No, she would like make me go swimming and like make me go meet other kids and In some ways I feel she always

43:34 Um, used to say that like friction is good. Um, like if if you brush your teeth And there's like a bit of blood somewhere, then you need to brush harder there. It's kind of like that idea that like friction is kind of good. If you're good at something already Then you're into something already. So it's like

43:49 A bit more about learning how to learn how to push yourself in other areas. Like sh I think she puts hard work And um courage in some ways. Or friction mostly. Um above talent.

44:02 Like Talent only gets you so far, but like the hard work and the friction gets you More. That is an awesome story. It's interesting that friction is good.

44:12 circles back to the story you shared about creating like hurdles for potential prospects early on and creating Looking for enthusiasm where they're filling out these long surveys. How about that? No, it's it's true. You're right. It shows something. Like it shows

44:28 If you do it's always easier to be in like inertia, right? That's why I also say sometimes it's like um It's like a breakup advice I give my girlfriends over the years. Where it's like, Well, if you decide to break up with somebody, it's for sure the right decision, right? Because like not breaking up with somebody is much easier. It's so hard to break up. So that makes it by default, like the right decision. So it's like yes, where there's friction, it means that you put something extra in. I wanna circle back to Marketing slash product advice, going back full circle a little bit. So folks are in product.

45:01 Now that you're in the marketing world thinking about marketing. What do you think you wish you knew? as a product leader that you think product leaders should be thinking more of or maybe miss. That you now see as a marketing leader. Having done prize for many years

45:15 I really did not understand the criticality. of marketing and even of product marketing. I really did not understand Deeply enough? that sometimes even gap between

45:26 Like when you're in the product and you really live Inside The product in the technical domain. You can sometimes not understand how far you are from like a common person in your market.

45:38 Or a seller in your market. And marketing in a lot of ways bridges that gap. Um, it's like a mul it's like a multiplier, but It's like the further the the further you get away from like the core like engineer And product?

45:52 And In order for the messages to move Correctly? They have to be crystal clear. That is some something I understood only when looking at it from the other side.

46:01 Like if you're on the product side. You can often kind of um work with things that are like uh fluffy or blurry or like gray. Okay, like Somebody will ask you, Can the power do this? And you'll be like

46:12 Yeah, not exactly, but like you know, it can do like blah blah, like kind of w work around something, right? Like it doesn't have to be crystal clear'cause You can kind of go around things in a way that when you try to scale your message, you can't. Like it gets lost in translation. You have to be crystal clear, black and white, you have to communicate very clearly, especially as an organization at scales.

46:33 You have to communicate very clearly. Like suddenly looking at the product org from the outside In the company that scales fast. And you said Whoa.

46:41 Like You h product Marketing and marketing plays a Uh uh A really important role

46:48 And being able to take that message and amplify it. And if you are giving signals that are even a bit grey Fuzzy? then it's not gonna work and you can't expect them to do a good job with it in some ways. So I really by understanding the go to market perspective and the user perspective and the seller perspective,

47:05 As only understood. How things that can look simple. On the inside of that side. are very complex when you kind of cross over to the go to market side. And I think learning the difference.

47:17 It's so so so important for private people. to understand like that they have to deliver those like crystal clear messages about the product. Is there an example of that where you're like oh wow, I thought this was good, but no, nobody understands what we're talking about. There's so much. Like I think for example in our domain it's very almost custom to like talking a lot of um Initials.

47:38 Like And a lot of things in security are like use initials for them. You say like CSPM for cloud security poster management. And like you use a lot of those types of initials and You you keep assuming that the world knows what you mean. But then when I actually looked at things over from the marketing side

47:54 Like if you ask um are we're private people engineers like What is our where does our product fall in terms of category? It would be like C Nap. Cloud native application protection. But if you go over and you like look at Google, like people are not Googling that's word.

48:09 They're Googling like Cloud security solution. Right. So it's That's just a

48:15 like a simple and silly example, but it's it's that example that like When you live inside something very technically in like inside your market and sort of domain You're very remote sometimes by accident from the buyer. And so a lot of those learnings kind of clicked for me only once I saw everything from the marketing side. You have this concept that you described as the dummy explanation when someone

48:36 You just need it to feel really, really simple. Can you color add some color to that? Yes, it's it's when I Now in marketing and in everything we write and everything our our team produces in terms of Anything, anything written by Wiz. I keep kind of going back to I don't want us to forget.

48:53 That we are inside our own bubbles. We go to work it with every day. Wiz as a cloud security company. If cloud security like We live inside our own bubble. But reminding yourselves that customers don't live in that bubble. They're like people in the in the world.

49:09 They're not their life is not twiz. So every time you write something I wanted to not assume Knowledge about whiz. Or knowledge about the product.

49:19 Or deep knowledge about the market. Алів дзвін е зампу. Wiz Wiz itself is based on like part of the deep innovation that was brought to the market that enabled the scale. was very high correlated signal that's based on a graph database. So inside Wiz we have the Wiz Graph database for security.

49:37 If you write something that says That with Graph database. I don't like it because why would a common person know what this Yeah, like the Wiz Graph database, right?

49:47 So It's Making sure that every single thing you say Is understandable by anybody. There's no reason to use complex

49:55 Terminology when you can keep Things straight and simple. Easier said than done, but such a good reminder to always be Is there like a framework here are you just like trying to remember People outside don't understand anything we

50:08 are talking about and simplify it further. Like how do you actually practice that?'Cause it's Like I imagine everyone's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know, I know all the stuff, but they don't actually do it. Is there any tips there for how to actually practice this? I constantly remind myself about the bubble. Every time somebody says Oh, we haven't changed our color for so long or a website's headline. It's like

50:27 We know a lot of company like A lot of those things for me it's like You're the only one that is sick of it. Right, your customers are just learning What he put there like ten months ago.

50:37 You are the only one looking at this thing like they after day, after day after day after day. Like they're just starting to grasp it and you're changing it under their feet. It's it's living in that bubble and constantly reminding myself like it is a bubble. I'm in the whiz bubble, right? But but

50:53 My audience does not. So yeah, it's it's a daily reminder. It's hard to get it's it's hard it's a hard daily reminder. That is so funny. Okay, uh just a few more questions. One is so there's four co founders of Wiz, is that right?

51:08 Yeah. What is your relationship with them? Ch how's that changed over the years? And over time and just like I imagine it's very difficult being a

51:18 Mm. not founder having a lot of trying to have a lot of influence on strategy and vision and all these things. Just I guess like how's that relationship changed over the years? Anything there that might be helpful to folks and any advice for People in a similar boat.

51:31 to work well with founders who are also very product oriented and very opinionated about everything. Yeah, I think The Wiz Founding team um is a truly incredible team. They also have a very unique story. Um, before with is actually their second company together. So before was they founded Adalom, which sold to Microsoft.

51:51 That's how they all ended up in Microsoft in the first place. And even before that, they all work together in the Israeli um army. So they've known each other for like they've been working together for like Thirty years, right? It's it's a long, long time. Well, not thirty. I I made him older, like twenty, twenty two, twenty two years.

52:08 It's a very, very, very unique team where there is complete trust. Between the team members. And also a very clear understanding of What falls under Like

52:19 Each has his own clear domain. And that's why decisions are made. Super fast. Super fast. Um because

52:27 The complete trust and everybody has their They're clearly owned domain. And I think The unique thing about Wiz and I truly think it defines our company's culture to this day. Is exactly that they did not have to work hard.

52:41 to be able to impact strategy and get a seat at the table. Yeah. I think that It's open, like it's it's a very open culture and an open company. That goes back to the beginning of like being able to say I don't understand.

52:53 They really believe in employees. And they really believe in giving everybody a chance to have impact. Regardless of Title or Experience or anything. If you want to drive more impact, you will get the chance.

53:06 I think it's something I really learned to adore, um, in in that team. It's like they will give their trust to someone And they will allow you to try. And I think it also causes employees to Have a lot of loyalty. Um because

53:20 You you are given those opportunities and you are given that chance. And Yeah. it builds a very, very healthy culture and I think also very uh a a culture that's very loyal. Like everybody feels part of what's being built here. Incredible. And how many employees are there? How large is Liz is Wiz at this point, just for folks to get a sense if they want to potentially join Wiz someday. Um

53:39 Around like um W one one One thousand and five hundred. Okay. Awesome. Amazing. Okay.

53:48 Well Potentially a final question. I want to take us to contrarian corner. Yeah. Something you have a very contrarian opinion about. Something that you believe that a lot of other people don't believe. We've already covered a number of things, I think, like that, but is there anything else that comes to mind? It's so funny because I don't think we've covered anything contrarian. Um

54:09 I I think like one thing is maybe goes back to what I was talking about before but was failing in confidence. I think like kind of being at least like being a woman in tech, you get talked to a a lot about like imposter syndrome. And building up her confidence and And I actually do think that like my approach to it, at least for me has

54:26 But just more effective. Like I'm I I I won't be able to build with confidence. I do feel like an imposter. And I know there's always like those statistics about many people feeling that way. So I think like maybe just like Let's embrace it. I feel like an imposter, you feel like an imposter, everybody feels like an imposter. It's like kind of maybe embrace it, but don't let that um

54:45 Stop you from from making a decision. Like Maybe they will find out you're an imposter. Maybe let them find out. Like it's fine.

54:54 Like I just You know, if you wanna um If you think about trying to go to interview for a company and you start thinking, Oh no, I won't get accepted, they won't take me. Perfect. Let them not accept you. Like you think you're not good enough? Perfect. That's on them too.

55:07 Now it's up to you right, like give yourself that opportunity. And I think for me Maybe less talking about like the imposter syndrome, more talking about just like Okay, but ignore it. Like you will never know your limit if you don't try.

55:20 The best advice I've heard along these lines, which is basically what you're saying. Is that when you take on a new role You like you actually are an imposter. You've never done this before. And that's okay. And that's very normal. Most people in a new role when they're promoted, given any big opportunity, like, yeah, you are you're an imposter in many ways, but that's okay. And that's exactly what you're saying. I never heard it, but I love it.

55:41 Roz, is there anything else you wanted to share, anything else that we haven't touched on that you think might be helpful to folks before we get to our very exciting lightning round? I deeply, deeply believe that we're doing something super special in Wiz. And I think the company is in like such an interesting place of hyperscaling but still keeping that

55:58 authentic and I think flat and enabling culture. I mean, I think there's literally interesting opportunities across every domain. Um so yeah, just to say that we are Always hiring for great people trying to make an impact. Are there any roles areas you're specifically most focused on higher rate now in case folks are listening or like oh shit, I'm gonna apply.

56:19 Truly, we are hiring across ev like the beauty of hyper sealing is we're hiring across everything. But also if if you're if you feel super strongly about joining and you don't find the right role, We'd still love to talk to you. Like there's many, many things for passionate people to do here. Awesome. We'll link to the career page in the show notes. And with that, Roz we've reached our very exciting lightning round. Are you ready?

56:41 I'm ready. I hope. First question, what are two or three books that you find yourself recommending most to other people? So I I focus like the product side of things. Um so we mentioned like the heat in the kitchen. Actually one of my most favorite business books and I've read like a lot of them

56:58 is um probably setting the table by by Danny Mayer, which is He owns Shake Shack and um like a chain of of really great restaurants in New York. And it's such an interesting business perspective from a different Domain then.

57:12 Obviously tech or SAS. But there's so many applicable lessons there from the deep connection to Hosting. Focusing and obsessing over your customer. You know, Shake Shack like unlike other chains where they optimize for you not to sit down.

57:27 They optimize for you to sit down there. Like it's a very, very Unique. Culture and unique vision. And I've learned a lot And some of the most like memorable lessons

57:37 come from his management thoughts, imagine, you know Huge chains, but also very high end restaurants. And I think it's a very, very inspiring inspiring book and different, like just different from my domain, but very applicable. Um in my domain as well. And then the second a second book I really like, um, I read it early on and was and and so did um The entire founding thing, I think.

57:57 Um the book by by um Netflix Um co founder Reed Hasting, No Rules Rules. Which also I think talks very like very clearly Netflix has a super unique culture and story, right? Like moving talk about the pivots, like they sold cassettes over

58:15 male and somehow it to what it is today. That's an insane story. And Think about like pivoting from like tech company to a company that has production to do and produces reality T V like Right. Like talk about the type of culture you would need to truly pivot. Um, I think it's a super interesting read for anybody thinking about like

58:31 Putting strong culture in place. I'm gonna call an Audible and ask About marketing specifically. You said that early on, you read some marketing books and listened to marketing podcasts. Is there anything else that you m recall was like very helpful in helping you ramp up in this world and

58:47 Do marketing. Honestly, I think I think at the end For me, I just Ended up saying, you know what? What are the companies

58:56 I feel do c do things really well. Like what are the brands I love? And what do I love about them? And then really obsess it obsessing about like what did they do? Like what are what is what are their team doings?

59:11 And then also obsessing about the people behind it. So for example I think gong Did does like an amazing job in marketing. For a B to B product.

59:22 And so it was like okay, so what are all the things Gong did? And then I would look up like every single like talk that CMO gave. So it's like Kind of I always like back

59:32 backed up into it. I did not care if it's like a security company or not security company. I actually don't like the way most security companies market things. It's mostly by like Frightening and fear and That's not really. I I don't like it. So

59:45 For me it was just like looking at brands I love and then backtracking from there. I love that. We have the CPO of Gong and co founder coming on the podcast very soon. So I will ask him about this. All right, uh next question. Do you have a favorite recent movie or TV show you really enjoyed? honestly like hardly, hardly, hardly watch anything. I think The Wire is the best like show ever created. I will

1:00:06 I will take that fight with anybody. Um, but yeah, I used I haven't really watched anything super recent. The only problem with the wire is it's so long to watch. I I wa I've watched I've seen it, I love it, but it's like a large commitment. It's like an hour times twenty two episodes. times I think five seasons.

1:00:21 But worth it. Worth it. Next question. Do you have a favorite product you recently discovered that you really love? It's a funny pr it's like a funny question in the world we live in where there's like just so many That's why. Which one should we pay attention to? That's the question.

1:00:36 I'll answer a pretty random answer. I always like I always go around with like um a notebook and a pen. Still that type of person. I mean they constantly walk around with them, right? Like across office rooms, blah blah. And I always care deeply about the notebook and the pen.

1:00:50 Like I'm a very picky person. I picked Pens, I pick notebooks. And I often lose my pens, which is sad. And I recently bought like this cute um Something you it's like very geeky, but like you can

1:01:01 Like a pen holder for a notebook. I did not know they existed. It's a very nice feature. It's like small magnetic and it like claps into your notebook and then you can put the pen in it. Really nice feature. How does one find this? Is there a brand or a name or something? I'll send you a link, but if you look like notebook pen holder, you'll find a ton. Okay, cool. We'll link to in the show notes, whatever one you recommend.

1:01:22 Uh just a couple more questions. Do you have a favorite life motto? that you often come back to and find helpful in work or in life. I think keeping it simple, like if something if you start feeling like something is too complex or An answer is too complex or something you're building in the product is too complex.

1:01:37 Probably Or something in your life feels too complex, like Probably it it does mean something. But sometimes you just have to like maybe take two steps back. Like leave it there until you

1:01:47 Come back to it again and you find a simple way out. Um whether it's a product feature or anything, if like if you start getting too If something starts getting too complex And you don't know how to design it or how to find end from start. It does mean it's not

1:02:00 The right solution. Mm. Too complex, it's not the right solution. But sometimes like take two steps back and they find it applicable to anything in life almost. Reminds me of the story when you were trying to sell the initial version of Wiz slash

1:02:13 Nu beyond whatever it was called early on. And it was just too complicated. No one understood what the hell was going on. And so I love how that circles back. Final question. I know you can't talk too much about this, but I'm also just curious what you're able to share.

1:02:25 As I said, allegedly Uh a company uh wanted to buy you guys for many billions and you all decided to decline that and stay private.

1:02:35 Anything you could share there about maybe why you decided to do that? If that was true at all. Yeah, I mean I can't um I can't address like any specific offers. Obviously it was over the year ha over the years has gotten um many acquisition offers.

1:02:49 I can share that I think For us. As being The founding theme. The employees.

1:02:55 The customers. The board. And staying on an independent path. We all really believe that Wiz can become one of the biggest security companies in the world.

1:03:05 Um When you look at Wiz today and I mean we spoke about the unconventional growth When you think about it. In some ways Wizard dresses the biggest Growing

1:03:16 market of security. Like cloud security, cloud is the fastest growing like cloud is such a fast growing market. Cloud cloud grows like twenty, thirty percent year over year. We feel like everything is in the cloud, but in reality But it's the maze and only like

1:03:29 twenty percent, fifteen to twenty percent of the in for today is in the clouds. So it's a really, really fast growing Estate in the fast growing market. And Security by nature is a bit of like a market of leaders.

1:03:42 Right? I mean It's it's a bit like buying insurance for something. You wanna buy it from the best from the leader in this domain. And today Wiz really is bath leader because it's a new space. Like whiz is considered

1:03:54 I think in many ways and that is also what makes marketing And brand, not just marketing, but truly brand. So important, like was is considered I think the clocurity company in a lot of ways, right? Still, of course, it's ours to lose

1:04:09 There's a ton of work ahead of us, right? But that is a huge opportunity in front of us. becoming the cloud security company and I think nobody thinks we We are anywhere near ready to To give it up in the way.

1:04:21 I totally understand that. And again, this is hiring in case you are inspired by your what by what you're hearing. Raz This was incredible. I'm so happy that you did this. Thank you so much for being here.

1:04:32 Two final questions. Where can folks find you online if they want to reach out and maybe follow up on stuff? And how can listeners be useful to you? Find me on LinkedIn. Um and Yeah, no, apply. We love we love great people who are learners, which I think is what this podcast is all about. So um definitely the right place to find the right people. Awesome, Ross. Thank you so much.

1:04:50 Thank you so much for having me. Bye, everyone. Thank you so much for listening. If you found this valuable, you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Also, please consider giving us a rating or leaving a review, as that really helps other listeners find the podcast. You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at Lenny's Podcast.com.

1:05:14 See you in the next episode.

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