Meta’s Massive Settlement, Bill Gates’ AI Warning, and Remembering Dolly Parton

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1:38 Delta is proud to host these competitors, providing charter flights for every WNBA team. to elevate their travel experience and champion equity on every leg of their trip. Keep climbing with Delta Airlines, the official airline of the WNBA. For Donald Trump and the Democratic Socialist of America to both put out a pretty similar statement about the passing of someone is a moment that probably will never happen again.

2:10 Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and we're back for yet another fine episode of Got three August. Oh, I love that so much. Today I'm joined by Chief White House correspondent and anchor of the source with Caitlin Collins, the very same. Caitlin Collins. Good to see you. How does Scott feel about that um intro? What do you think? You you saw him more recently than I did. I saw a photograph of the two of you.

2:45 I did run into him. Um it's so funny to see Scott like out in the wild. You know, it's like seeing like a teacher when you're like in the sixth grade out there to school and you're like, What are you doing here? On vacation. Yeah, did you see that? What was he doing there? Um, he was just hanging out, he was having dinner with someone, like a political, you know, foreign policy thinker. Um, he was good. He seemed rusted and ready to get back to podcasting. Yeah, he's suddenly he's suddenly texting me a lot. So I know that it's the end of August'cause he's like, Hey girl. And I'm like, Oh hi. Good to talk to you. Like and he's and he's also threading a lot. You know, he does threads and so he has an opinion about things. I'll I'll tell ya, we'll we'll discuss this later, but he's very upset that he's not here for the Natalie Harp situation. He's like missed that. And now Dolly Parton, uh Scott and I are huge fans. So you dedicated your entire show to Dolly Parton on Tuesday night. Um Talk a little bit about it. What's your favorite dolly song? I mean I was actually thinking about this last night'cause I was listening to

3:44 I had a very long car ride last night. I was listening to Dolly Parton the whole time. Yeah. Me too. You know, I really think I mean there's so many good ones, um, and Islands in the stream is incredible, but I really think it's hard candy Christmas because it is like I know it's kind of like a random one. Oh, it's not that you're not random, but it's that you know that one. Yeah. Yeah. It's not always the first one I think people think of. Right. Um But it's what I think of when I think of Dolly Parton. And for us to dedicate a whole show to something that is not uh politically related is pretty rare for us, but it really speaks to, I think, how everyone felt about about Deli Part and certainly how I think about her. Yeah. Oh, but I think she was politically related in a way that was very different. I think she did a lot of political things without saying them out loud. She was someone who's calling quiet politics, like in terms of her actions, whether it was

4:30 supporting the Moderna vaccine or whether it was uh, you know, doing all manner of feminist things without having to say so, or supporting trans people or supporting Black Lives Matter. She was v quite explicit about that. So she was political in a very different way than what we're used to, I would assume. Yeah, and you know what I loved is when we had Melissa Etheridge on She brought this up immediately and we were gonna talk to her about it, but That moment when they did the Crossroads duet together, which you know, I grew up watching CMT, like that's all I I would my parents could get me to clean my room because I would blair CMT like Travis Tri and George Strait and I would just listen to music. But when they did their their do, it was the first time that two women had done it. So it was a breakthrough in and of itself. But Melissa was telling me that actually it meant so much more to her than that because Dolly was selected They let Dolly pick who she wanted. She picked Melissa Etheridge. And it was in 2003, it was at a time when the gay marriage debate was raging in the United States. And Melissa said for her to be invited in that moment to share the stage with her was so special and so meaningful to her. And obviously she spoke over the gay community so much throughout her career.

5:35 decades before it was, you know, uh in vogue thing to do for a for a celebrity. And it was just so special to hear Melissa talk about what that meant, you know, twenty years ago to to share that stage with Dolly Party. Well sh I think she knew exactly what she was doing. You know what I mean? I think she understood her. who she was and she had conducted her career that way, doing, you know, really being the pilot of everything. One of the things she I put up was a song that I love called Traveling Through. Um and it was it's not as good. Such a great song. It was from t a movie called Trans America, which was uh about a a trans uh woman who's meeting her son and it it was astonishing sh and it's such an e uh it's a song of acceptance. You know, at the time it was not a thing that people did a lot of people did. She constantly put herself on the line in that regard in a very quiet but s I I think profoundly strong way, in a in a very different way. Um, although she did speak out when she needed to. She absolutely did. Yeah, and you know, even just on her

6:32 her life overall. I have never gotten so many messages from family members about my show. I mean they watch, obviously I always say I'm converting um Alabama viewers one at a time. Explain where you're from for people people do know your background, but people who don't. You're from Alabama. I'm from a small town outside of Montgomery called Prattville in Alabama. And my immediate family watches the show almost every night, but to hear from kind of some distant rel relatives last night or people that are in my family that I went to Dollywood with a bunch of times as a kid, it was really fun to hear them reflecting on her and also you know, loving to hear from Pam Tillis and Melissa Etherid last night. And I mean, but Dolly really was a huge part of my childhood because this is what we did in the south for vacation. We drove down to the beach Or we drove north to Tennessee. Those were our two spots that we went pretty much every year. And we would go to Dollywood and we thought it was I mean, it was Disney World for us before we went to Disney World. And we'd go there, you could see Dolly's childhood home, a replica of it.

7:30 And It was just it's a core memory for me as a as a child, and so having that, you know, knowing her childhood and what she came from and never forgot. It's so meaningful to me, I think. And genuine. And genuine too, because a lot let me tell you, you'd be surprised to know, of course, I've been to Dollywood. I was also a huge Elvis fan, by the way. And I've been to Tup I've been to Tupolo. That's how much I was. And I love Dolly Martin so much, I w I took my whole family to Dollywood and One of the things I loved about and it's in Pigeon Forge, which is now kind of big and touristy, but it's really kind of fascinating what she's done there for economically for that region. And um and she I went there and what's amazing about it. Which is

8:11 There's so many differences in this country that's crazy. But when you get in Dollywood Everyone gets along. Like it's crazy. Like you walk through the thing, walk through the the butterfly entrance, and I took my daughter, Claire, was a baby, just found the pictures from there. And including in that shack, we took her into that shack and everything else. And Uh better flies or or Dolly symbol, uh whatever that was her thing that she had around. And Literally you have the gays.

8:37 The Rednecks. The conservatives, the liberals, the lesbians. It was crazy. And everyone was so happy to be together because of her. And I was like, What can you Bottleness. It was such a um I and then minute you go out, it's back into guns and abortion and everything. Like you're like it was really it was a really interesting

8:58 feeling and I never I never understood it. I love Dollywood. I still haven't figured out how she did that. I mean how she built this massive career, stayed true to her roots, was always herself. I mean that's what I think is the most infectious part about her is you watch her get all these questions, you know, twenty, thirty years ago from a lot of men about her appearances and her look and how that affects her. I mean, Dan Rathers' face when they're in this sit down and she's saying that she never slept with anyone to get anywhere. She only slept with people that she wanted to sleep with if she happened to have slept with them. Right. is this iconic moment and he I mean you could tell he doesn't even know what to really say back to her. Um But I just think, you know, reflecting on how she was able to to span that spectrum and appeal to so many people.

9:44 I I d it's hard to just think of other people who who've achieved that. But people asked me who do you w wanna interview of all people and I said Deli Parton, but only about her entrepreneurship. I just like I don't want to talk about the songs. I don't want to talk about anything but her entrepreneurship. And that's what really got through her ability to shift and change and move along Whether she went from, you know, country to leaving that show, the Porter Wagner show, to moving on to uh pop and then she went to the It's a good idea. It just sh she is the quintessential American entrepreneur. And and it's I'd heard the reason I wanted to interview her was she was doing a lot of stuff with AI and s s song stems because she owns thousands of songs that haven't been released, too. And so she wanted them released after she died. And this is why I don't know that. Exactly. And I w I like wanted to talk to her about it. And just you she is the absolutely quintessential American entrepreneur in a way that is so beautiful and also just a kind and

10:42 Just a kind soul in a way that's very profound in in a w I don't know. I just feel like that's why people reacting. So what did your relatives say, may I ask? I mean they're all just sharing their own memories about going to Dollywood, listening to Dolly Parton, what she meant to them. I mean, my mom is a fourth grade teacher and she said she's been playing it in her classroom all morning. Um my stepdad who was the, you know, driving force behind us going to to Dollywood was texting me about it this morning. And you know one thing that's funny, you we're talking about taking your kids, um, which I love that you did. Or and I think everyone should should go, um, is we went in a time when There were no smartphones or anything like that. I mean, maybe we had disposable cameras, but I mean, maybe we didn't. I I was asking my family, I was like, Are there any pictures of us at Dollywood?

11:26 And honestly Everyone was looking for them yesterday because I wanted to use them in the show. And we couldn't find any. And I think it was a sign that of the times, but also we had so much fun on these trips and we were just so, you know, locked in on a family vacation of it all. That like that was it. We there are no pictures because that's how much fun we were having and I just love that. I feel like it's so quaint and it's a wonderful The food is great too, by the way. Cinnamon rolls are incredible. But also there's healthy food, too. It's like a mix. I was sort of like Dolly. Well, we weren't eating that all probably. No, I know. I had the cinnamon. Obviously. I had the cinnamon roll. Hello. I had a dream of going up to the actual shack finding it. And then I thought I'd get arrested or something like that. Yeah, because it still exists. I mean she went back and bought it.

12:10 Later on, which I think is so incredible. And it was insulated with newspaper and and all these other clippings that were on the wall because That was how they stayed worth you know what I love that she said? Everyone's talked about her imagination library and I'm I'm a huge reader still. My kids read. Reading is it's amazing. And reading as a kid was so like instrumental for me. Um but what I loved when she talked about why she started it is because her dad couldn't read or write. But she didn't say, Oh, he couldn't read, couldn't write. She said he never had the chance to learn. That's right. And he didn't have that opportunity afforded to him. And I loved how she phrased that because I do think I mean all over, but especially in the south, so many of us have grandparents or great grandparents that are like that. And it wasn't that they couldn't or that they wouldn't have been able to, it was that they didn't have the opportunity. And that is what she wanted to give to people. Right, absolutely. All the time. And one of the m moments and it you probably covered this when she did the she used the Jolene song.

13:02 Which is one amazing song. Um In lots of ways, and to including technically how she put it together, but um Joe uh she'd vaccine, vaccine, vaccine, vaccine. That was also a moment when there's all this anti vac it was incredible for her to that is a big political statement to me, like and a a risky one for someone like her. Yeah, think of the lives she saved. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's what Melissa Utherage was saying last night about her being outspoken about be who you are and don't worry about who someone else is, um, and the permission structure that she basically gave to people who were sitting in their room thinking, Well, Dolly Parton's not judging me. I think in the South, especially during the pandemic and people a lot of vaccine hesitancy. I saw it among people I love.

13:43 And Y to come out and say that, you know, she could have said nothing. Right. And she chose not to. Not only did she put her money where I'm out this, she also spoke up like she always has. She always has, which is amazing. Um, just for people to know, the this imagination uh library is amazing. My kids use it. They're wonderful books. And um and it's a Republican lawmakers in Missouri and Indiana cut or reduced funding for her child reading programme. Hope they will reinstate it. Uh I hope some billionaire would will get get with it and back that as they go forward. I'm sure she has is giving away most of her money to things like that, um, in her will, although she one of the other things that I loved was her her uh dedication to her own family. Like they were all working for her. And that that

14:27 video from her nephew was who was her security person and her dad was before it just You just are like what? You know, it's a real shift. Now let me just say Donald Trump ordered flags to fly at half staff and said in a post there's never been anyone like her and never will. Rest in peace, Dolly, the world loves you. Surprisingly s did not try to suck up the energy. Were you surprised? For Donald Trump And the democratic socialist of America to both put out a pretty similar statement about the passing of someone is a moment that probably will never happen again. Never. I mean for them to both agree on something I think also speaks to the moment we're in, but it it was a moment where

15:03 Uh I mean this morning he was saying in an interview that you know Dolly Parton always liked him and was, you know, so nice to him, um and a fan of his. And then but but in terms of This overall you know, and I'm curious how your thoughts on this, because we've talked about billionaires so much between the two of us and these tech giants and what people do with their money. One thing I keep seeing on in the aftermath of her death is how she spent her money and that she was obviously extremely successful, but how she used that success to reinvest, not in like a bullshit in terms of, you know Let me make myself look good. She genuinely wanted to invest in children and in her community and where she came from. She gave money to the people in the to finish high school. She gave money to do that when people were devastated by I think the floods, she gave money people for that to recover or whatever had been happening there. She also, uh, when she made all that money on I Will Always Love You when Whitney Houston redid it and she made a fortune on that song and didn't sell it to Elvis. Again, great entrepreneur. She could have sold it to Elvis and she didn't at that time. Which imagine how tough that decision is

16:07 Oh, I I totally No, no, you can't have it.'Cause she knew. She knew what a great that's a perfect song. Um but what was really interesting is she continued to do that and I agree with you. She didn't do like the the I guess the equivalent would be McKenzie Scott, who is Jeff Bezos' ex wife, who just gives money and goes away. Like g just hands it out, moves along, and you never hear from her. She does she just hands it over to people. Um Uh, which I think is un unusual. And you're right, most people do it in this incredibly selfish, uh uh, performative way. Now, interestingly, Jeff Bezos did give Dolly Parton a hundred million dollars uh for that.

16:46 Mm. that money that he gave out to a number of people, including I think Van Jones and others. I think Jose Andre's got some. Uh, and I think she's given it all away. She's given it. You know, given which is great. But honestly, Jeff Brazil should fucking just give it away. Like to me, I was like let's let's do not not do this performative let me meet famous people. Just give it away and keep giving it away. That That would be my taste in that. I love your shirt, by the way. Oh thinking we even talked about it. Oh I'm wearing a shirt that says WWD. What would Dolly Do. I got it at Dollywood. It's so good. What would Dolly do. Well, I didn't realize they didn't have this when I was a a kid, but I was talking to someone last night about going that they have a display of her wigs there now. Yes. Yeah, which I'm loved. Yeah. I love the coat of many colors is there and everything is there. It's such Do you know what she did that I also think is important for women is she did not associate aesthetics with character. Mm-hmm.

17:38 And she could separate those two in a way that a lot of people I s to this day still struggle with, which is why I think she got so many questions about it. And she would every time she got a question, it seemed like about her um about her appearance, she would turn it back to what she's like on the inside. And she wasn't bashful about, you know, what she had done. I loved that also Um but she was saying, you know, well maybe it's fake on the outside, but it's real on the inside. That's right. That's one of her songs. That's one of the great songs she sang. So um and one of my other it's fake I like what's it called? The backwoods Barbie. That's a great song. That's that talks about false eyelashes. Big dreams and faded genes and the other one that's a great song. And then I've kept putting up songs that people don't know about. And my favorite is is uh and they re redid it with a bunch of amazing women artists recently with her. Um, which is light of a clear blue morning. But I would recommend reading listening just to her sing it. For some reason

18:32 Her death, which I kinda I think everyone was sort of expecting a little bit. This weekend I had spent a lot of time w watching her for some reason. I just love I I love Dolly Park, which I can't believe. I knew I was yes, I was like, Oh, I think she's gonna die soon. I need to be with her. Like I've gotta like spend time and'cause she was always up and out and she wasn't, right? So you had to imagine something was going on. And one of the things that I thought about was it gives people courage for death. I know it sounds crazy, but this like the internet was Like saturated with her yesterday. All kinds of stories from regular people, the kind things she did, and all manner of things. And I thought I have just about fucking had it.

19:14 not getting along with people. She is right. Like, you know what I mean? I do you imagine it'll have some political impact?'Cause I I tell you, everyone I know woke up today and like, Okay, that's enough. That's enough with the hate. That's enough with like this woman lived the most perfect uh, you know, if you want to talk a religious life, a Christian life in the way that was just right. Do you think it will have a political effect on people? 'Cause I felt like That's Enough of this.

19:40 Hate. I th I think that's a good point. I mean, because you couldn't open any of the apps without just seeing everything about Dolly, um, which never happens where we all come together or something. I'm not sure if it'll have an impact, but I think it shows how much people are grasping for something that does unite people and that does give people hope and enthusiasm and an optimism and Just something that everyone can love and no one has to complain or criticize or argue or you know, avoid the subject with people they love because they don't want to get an argument. It really showed that we are grasping for something like that that is hopeful and bright and nice. And you know, I mean we do so much politics on my show. For my team, who was amazing last night, to just go through all these archives of Larry King interviews and old clips of her

20:24 I think like the way we described it after the show was we were like that was soul cleansing. Like it was so nice to have this moment of no arguments, no nothing. It was just everyone talking about Dolly. And they don't go after her. I have to say, one of the things she did a lot of very liberal stances on a lot of these issues that are now such hot button issues. You don't see criticism of her. You never see it. Like they never touch her. It's really an interesting and they will not now, obviously, because she's saint like. I love Jack White said instant sainthood for Dolly. Instant. Instant. Why not? Anyway, we love Dolly. What would Dolly do? This is what I'm gonna do the rest of the and I recommend the PBS documentary, here I am. It's just really wonderful. And she really was an amazing and many songwriter. Uh she was innovative and she was an entrepreneur. That is something you have to think about when you think about her. Not just'cause she came from a modest means, but um because of that. And the last thing I would say is people don't realize this my family's from West Virginia and so they loved her. That's one of the ways I got in touch with country music very early or bluegrass. How great is that my grandparents grew up in such a shack. in such a place in in rural West Virginia. So just

21:33 Everything about her is fantastic. Anyway, uh let's move on. Uh Meta has agreed to pay. This has just happened, uh Caitlin. Uh Nearly 17 billion dollars to settle a major federal case brought by twenty nine states over allegations that Facebook and Instagram harm children's mental health. The deal also requires major changes to Meta's apps, including daily time limits, nighttime blocks for teens, and stronger age verification measures. The settlement comes in. In the second week of a high stakes trial in California where states accuse Meta of misleading the public about risks to young users. Um any any thoughts on this? You and I talk about this a lot. I thought it was uh I think you don't pay a lot of several people like, oh it's Peanuts. It's not peanuts, guys. This is a big deal. Um, I know it's not enough, and everyone had pretended it was one point four trillion dollars. That was never going to be a settlement, maybe a A hundred million, two hundred million might have happened in a jury trial. But this is real money and uh hopefully real changes. So this is of course led by Rob Bonta, who's also doing the Paramount deal. I know you talked to him recently, or the the case leading the cases for the attorney generals. But

22:37 Talk a little bit about this,'cause this is a point where first of all, State's attorney generals are the ones doing legislation here, finally getting these changes when the federal government, both Democrats and Republicans, um, have done nothing at the federal level. Yeah, and I think sometimes when you see those lawsuits, you kinda wonder if it's gonna go anywhere. And I mean this settlement today speaks to that. And you know, my questions were one It it seems like the changes obviously they're directed at children and that has been the focus of this is that it will affect all users potentially in terms of what they're changing. Yeah. And you know what that you know, the nighttime activity you know, how long you're on there during the day. Um and I think the second question that I had looking at this was, you know Obviously they chose to settle, maybe they saw the writing on the wall and they didn't think it was gonna go well for them.

23:19 And is it the first of many? Yes. Are we gonna see more of this just because this has happened here?'Cause I mean, there's so many other cases that are happening. Yeah, I think it what it says is if you push back hard enough, these th Let me just say I'm glad they settled. I'm glad they're doing these things. And uh someone from Facebook sent this to me. It's a two hour daily time limit turning off access. to our apps at night as a default, no notification during school hours, clear prompts and notifications for teens every fifteen minutes of continuous screen time, new parental supervision controls so parents can decide how their teens use the app. Um so these are all things that are great. These are also things that should have been there a long time ago. I also I kinda you know, it's great for kids and I think that we should have it. I mean, I think about my nephews who are not yet into this era yet, and it's terrifying because

24:05 They're so pure and perfect and happy and you don't want that to be corrupted. I also think it should happen maybe for people who are 65 plus because I think a lot of people's parents are online way too much. And sometimes I talk to my own parents and I'm like Wait, what? Like what did you see or what did you like that that's AI. That's not even real or that's not you know there's views of me being used. And so I don't actually think it should only apply to children. No, no, no. I think that adults need this too. Yeah, there's gonna be more cases like that. I think it's just easier for people to speaking of agree, like Marsha Blackburn agrees with you know, someone on the left on this topic, right? Unless she unless she wants to be governor and then she changes a little bit. But uh you know, it's a really it's a big issue for everyone. And I think it's a you know, ac actually I'm working on a new book and it's about a digital bill of rights. Like what should we all have uh going forward. And one of the th this is the beginning, not the end of this. And As much as people don't want a settlement going to trial Facebook has un unlimited options of suing and su like appealing and appealing and appealing. And this would have taken years to get these things that need to happen on the ground, right? Initially for kids. And others will follow. That's also the other companies will fall. I mean, they're the biggest one, obviously, but it will require it will g it will start to set

25:17 limits of what we want. Again, the government should have done this. So should Facebook many years ago, but they didn't. Um, and so that's one of the things, and it will not end. It will not end what's happening here, which is a absolute trend, which you're seeing again politically, Caitlin. I mean you're seeing you you've written we've we've talked a lot about on the show about these data centers, which to me is a proxy. How important is it the people you interview because look, Mike Rogers changed, uh Abbott changed, Vivek Ramaswamy changed. W what do you think the impact is gonna have? I mean not only did they change, it was a full one eighty. Yes. And so you know we are all we might have to do.

25:57 Well, and I think, you know, some of the Democratic candidates who were running, you know, we had um Gina Hinahosa, who's running against Abbott on the other night, and she was saying, Well, let's see if this is real, because I think if he wins reelection, um and obviously this is his opponent speaking, but she said that she thought maybe he'd change back his stance given where he was just a year ago. And I think it it's it's incredible because speaking of crossover again, which obviously is like the dominant theme here, this is something that people on the far right and the very progressive left seem to agree on, um, which is this hesitancy at best and a fallout opposition at worst for these companies against these data centers being built in their communities with no say so, no transparency, they feel on their behalf of what's happening. And we had seen these, you know, Republicans in most cases ushering in these these giants to their states to, you know, take over this. And you know, without regard, it seems like whether or not these small communities where they're being built can keep up with, you know, what that would r require and entail for resources. Um but I mean with you know Kathy Hokel imposing her moratorium, the response to that, but seeing how it is now starting to take shape and

27:06 Everyone is kind of shifting to this, with the exception of people like President Trump. He says it's a mistake. So tell me that I was gonna say that. Why how come he's sticking to his guns? I mean you c he oddly enough, you kinda have to respect him for that. He's gonna go he's all in on AI and his whole administration is based on the bear hug that he gave to these AI people. But he's not backing down and it probably will hurt. Other candidates, presumably. Well, there's a lot of Republican districts where this has become a huge issue, or even I mean, obviously we were talking about the republican Senate seat in Ohio the other night in terms of where this stands. And so Trump is someone who has often been praised over the last decade for being so in touch with his political instincts, his base. This is an area where it doesn't seem to be the case because there is so much concern and skepticism about this. And so I mean, I think the question is Do we get on the other side of the midterm elections this November?

27:58 And this is actually a way bigger issue than people anticipated in terms of, you know, as you and I were talking about the other night. Real grassroots op to uh opposition to this. It's not, you know Michael Watley in North Carolina was saying that it's all basically ginned up and that it's being driven by outside forces, but As you were saying, that's not the case. It's that well, that was Kevin O'Leary in uh in Utah. It's just moronic. It's moronic to call these people Chinese communist patsies. I mean, honestly. Uh it was so weird. And I'm when Watley did that, I'm like, You, sir, first of all, it's untrue. And second of all

28:32 You're obviously not talking to your constituents'cause you need to talk to these people'cause all kinds of people are concerned. I it just it'll be interesting to see what Trump does after if this show proves to be a big deal, because it's about economics, really. The data centers are about economics. Mm-hmm, not about Well it is about AI. It is. And speaking of which, Bill Gates is sounding the alarm on AI just when Tech leaders have wanted to pull back on the Doom scrolling and the Doom saying that we're gonna kill all your jobs. In a nearly six thousand word essay on his website, Gates warns the transition to this new AI era will be one of the most turbulent times in human history, and we're not prepared for it. Gates is proposing solutions, including taxes on AI tokens and bots and reserving certain jobs for humans. He's also urging the countries to collaborate on regulations specifically to the US and China to work together. He's absolutely right. Bill Gates did acknowledge to the Washington Post that people might dismiss his views given his ties to Jeffrey Epstein. He again called his interactions with Epstein a very bad mistake. It was indeed a very bad mistake, Bill. I also told him that um talk about this because Um it's really it's an interesting thing'cause the tech leaders have been trying to pull back and again, Trump is not

29:40 Pulling back on this, right? Not pulling back on this issue, and has been best friend to AI essentially throughout this administration, including at the very beginning, putting them in the front row. And I'll just also note: MIT just put out a report recommending a fundamental rethink of higher education in the age of AI, calling for redesigned assessments, more hands-on learning, and course specific rules for AI use because AI can now do all the undergraduate courses in like four seconds, which is really amazing. So talk about this as a political issue because one of the things that's important is there there hasn't been much is there any plus in doing it, uh doing stuff around what Gates is talking about? I mean Talk about a holy shit moment. As you're reading that Mm-hmm. I it's like the call is coming from inside the house because he's saying, Hi I'm one of these industry leaders, and I'm saying that not only are my colleagues completely downplaying the concerns over this because they want to make more money, he's saying this idea that we're going to self-regulate.

30:37 is just not even close to having a grasp on reality. I mean to hear that from him It should be alarming to everyone. And you know, it made me think back to every time we have Bernie Sanders on the show. which is maybe once every couple of weeks, we always talk about A AI with him, and he always says He's beating the drum on it and he's saying, you know, no one's paying attention to this. It is going to wipe out um the job force, that people do not understand the impact it's going to have, and by the time we do It's gonna be too late. And so he's basically arguing in a different way than what Bill Gates is saying here, but arguing the same message. And so for Bill Gates to say, you know, my colleagues are not going to be the ones who are going to step up and and handle this. And going back to the meta lawsuit that we're just talking about, I mean, we've seen what's happened before when they are the ones who are expected to

31:23 to be in charge of the guidelines and the guardrails. Yeah. It's the Fox Garden House. They have no interest in regulation whatsoever, unless it's to their advantage or a big fat, pretty contract of the Department of Defense on AI or something like that. Okay, but then the other question is, okay, so is it up to Congress or Washington? Because we interview those people every day and Yes, Bernie Sanders is the one leading the charge on this from you know the people that we have on the show. But this idea that they're going to understand what they're doing and be able to do it. Like I don't have a lot of confidence in that. All right, but do they understand how planes fly? Do they need to? We were able to manage to have s many car regulations. This see to me that's always the excuse. But it was slower, I think. That's what Bill Gates is saying. Is he talking about the farming transition, you know, with agricultural um agricultural revolution and industrializ industrialization. Is it happened over generations and people had time to adjust and he's saying mean what I found one of the most alarming things in here was he was saying

32:19 We don't have time for that, basically, here. That's not going to happen in the same way. Yeah. Well, I don't know. I feel like they can do it. They haven't tried in any way whatsoever, and they've been captive. And again, I wonder if Trump's embrace of them is gonna have a real effect on on the elections. I mean, w o of all the things where would you rank tech being in that list. Of like voters' concerns. Yeah. I mean I think in in rural areas, the data center's backlash, the flock camera's backlash is becoming more and more of a thing. And this is police who who are taking pictures of people. Yeah the AI readers of like the the license plates. I mean And you know, I I've seen obviously people responding to the data centers, people saying that's not well founded, or maybe we just aren't being transparent enough about this, or as Greg Abbott was saying, you know, they dug their own grave by not being more forthright and honest about what was happening and what people should expect. Um I I think that could end up being a big thing. I think obviously the economy and inflation, but they're all kind of tied together, you know, because it's making people think about what they have money for, what they can afford, where they're stretched thin. And then you know these tech giants are building these data centers in their backyards.

33:24 And Affecting resources and water. is their main concern. And I think that's, you know, it's all kind of intertwine. How do you think about AI? What do you do? How do you use it?'Cause there was this controversy over this this uh guy who's insulting Scott Besson, very famous investor. He used AI for this Wall Street Journal. Yeah, his mentor. His mentor, right, exactly. Well, I think Svat Business has been soiling himself for months now, but that's just my opinion. Um how do you look how do you look at it yourself when you think about

33:53 it's use in your life or in your reporting or how you cover things. You know, and the part of Bill Gates' thing that uh I thought resonated was he was talking about all these ways that it could be helpful to people. And not just to, you know elites or fancy people or people who have these like, you know, cushy jobs. He was talking about how it could really affect people who Are working. you know, two jobs and don't have time to deal with the paperwork for healthcare or for getting government benefits or applying for financial aid for college. Or it's this convoluted kind of difficult thing. You know, when I went to college Um

34:26 my sister had gone to college, but we were kinda navigating this process on our own. You know, it wasn't really something we didn't have a fa like a legacy of people who had our alumni that we knew how to to consult. And so applying for financial aid was really difficult and we didn't totally understand it, even what we were signing up for then. And talking about how that could be helpful to people now. I love and I think that could be really, really helpful to a lot of the people I grew up with. But I think on the other side of it it's

34:51 If this happens so fast and it wipes out all these jobs before we even have time to understand the implications of it. Um, it's scary. But I think everyone can see how it's helpful to them on a daily basis. I use it for research and for looking things up. Uh my dad used it my dad sells mobile homes. He uses it every day um for random things. Wow, I didn't know your dad sell mobile. I love a mobile home. Yes, yes he does. The big ones? The really fancy ones. Yeah. Yeah. Well there's a range, but there's a range. Yeah. There's a range have you ever lived in the middle of the city. I you know, I had a lot of family members lived in mobile homes. So I have I have a familiarity with mobile homes. Yeah, but I just think that that speaks to the spectrum of it, you know, that I use it every day, my dad uses it Um my mom is a teacher, she uses it. It really is something that you can see how it can be helpful.

35:35 But that doesn't mean that they should just run amok and everybody. Or not have worries about it for your job. Yeah, we'll just wait and see what happens. You know what I used it for this morning? Looking up I couldn't find my son has is an obsession with monster trucks. I'm taking to a monster truck rally, of course. And uh we we couldn't figure out what this one monster truck was. So I've tried to find it on Google and I just couldn't, like through the imagery and I described it. I just took a picture of it. Put it into Claude, and it was like, Oh, that's Tiger Reek. And I was like, Thank you. And my son was like, Thank you. And I was like, fantastic. And then he's in this weird uh toddler. uh Monster Truck trading rink with a bunch of boys and they trade them like insan like I can see him years from now being a Scots uh you know uh on Wall Street trading stocks, but now he's trading Monster Trucks. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump breaks his endorsement losing streak.

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40:02 Caitlin, we're back with more. Donald Trump just snapped his recent losing streak with an endorsed candidates coming out on top in the latest round of Republican primaries in South Carolina. Lindsey Graham's sister, Darlene, won her primary despite having virtually no political experience in debate SNAFU over foreign policy. But Trump went all in on her visiting South Carolina to stump for her and also to have Trump also had success in Oklahoma, where his candidate won in the Republican runoff for governor. Talk talk a little bit about this because um he also, uh speaking in the midterms got a major boost from the Supreme Court this week in his push to redistrict mail and voting. Now it was reported not to be a very important thing to do. Quite correctly, the majority of justices said Trump could move forward with his executive order, which means plans to do it, not actually implementing, which directs the postal service to help determine which voters should receive mail and ballots. Um it's unclear whether it's actually gonna impact the midterms, a separate injunction is in place and more legal wrangle is expected. But as Justice Brown Jackson wrote in her descent The ruling needlessly injects chaos and uncertainty in the upcoming midterm elections. About thirty percent of all ballots in the two thousand twenty four election were cast by mail. Well, Trump has long attacked mail and voting. He's used it himself a lot. Most recently in his uh this month in Florida's GOP.

41:16 Primary. If he breaks it's like they didn't want to do precrime. If it's illegal, we'll call it illegal, but right now he can plan for it, essentially. Which I That seemed fair, honestly, but icky, but fair. Um talk about these two things of where his power is right now. Well on the executive order, um yeah, they were basically saying for now this can move forward. But the lawsuit it wasn't about the merits. The ruling wasn't about the merits of the case. It was more about the timing and when they were sued over it. So we'll see what happens there. You know, we're ten weeks out from the midterms. The closer you get, the harder it is to implement those changes, agree with them or disagree. On Darlene Graham, though, I mean we went into

41:56 Tuesday night not knowing what really was going to happen in that Senate runoff, because obviously Republicans in South Carolina, you know, are kind of divided on this. Not kind of divided, they are divided on it because so many people wanted to run for this seat, but the president had self anointed or had anointed Darlene Graham after her brother's death, so suddenly the summer And so going into last night. The one takeaway as we've been following Trump's endorsement power, you know, whether or not he can bring these candidates over the line if he's not on the ballot. It showed that he still does have that power because he basically elevated someone who until a couple of weeks ago was not well known, who did have some debate mishaps, whose policy decisions and stances are not really well defined.

42:38 Um And he basically elevated her to way to where she was successful last night against Ralph Norman. And so and it's not like Ralph Norman is someone who is not this massive ally of the presidents. He's the person who last time we had him on this show, we asked him about the text message he sent after January sixth. Where he said he wanted the president to declare martial law. Yes, I recall. And I asked him about that, and then he told me his only regret was that he spelled it. M-A-R-S H A L not M A R T I A L. Um, so this person is a very close ally of the president's, to to put it lightly. Yeah. But obviously Darlene Graham was pulled across the line.

43:15 Likely's gonna be a senator till twenty thirty two at least. Uh, why did he why her versus Storman Norman. I I think it I mean it was it seemed As we were reporting on this, when he came out and endorsed her to have the seat just for a little bit in that temporary period until the runoff, I talked to White House officials who said it's just a tribute to Lindsay, it's his dear friend that he lost suddenly. And she's gonna be there kind of, you know.

43:42 in just a placeholder role. They did not think it was going to be for the long haul. These are White House officials who speak to the president. And so we kinda said okay and then we got closer to the runoff and it was clear that the president thought that Darlene Graham should run for the seat really. And now obviously is the nominee. And so I think there are questions of what that's going to look like once she's in the Senate. She said she disagreed with her brother only on immigration that she would have gone further. Um but wasn't able to articulate, you know Policy on Taiwan. for example, which could be a real issue soon. And so

44:13 Uh I I think it did speak, though, to the president's political power. But the other part of this is and that's what the White House will tell. They had to spend a lot of money. From his super pack that does not has been pretty stingy actually with Republicans. They spent eight hundred thousand dollars here. He did a virtual rally, he did an in person rally. I mean the president put a lot of effort into a very safe Republican seat in ensuring that his candidate got across the line. And I think that's because it His endorsement power has been tested in other places and he didn't want it to be tested here. Well, there's a lot of coverage about his power. Waning. Rather considerably. Like and uh you know, he definitely had to l he heavy this one, right? He had to shove it through in a way that he never. So how does how are people looking about his power? There's all kinds of people leaving the administration, you know, is I think everyone wants to get out ahead of the democratic

45:03 Potential subpoenas. uh in in the midterms'cause most people what was interesting also about that Darlene race is Polymarket and Cal she did get it right. Polling did not, which was interesting. They were more accurate in terms of the final numbers. Maybe a little bit too high um for them and way too low for the polls, which is interesting. That's a whole crisis right now in political coverage. Um But uh but uh then again they got a bunch of other things wrong, Poly Market did, um in Michigan and other places and Wisconsin. What what what is the power now? Where wh wh how are people feeling with people leaving? And you know, you've covered this administration since when? Like since the la Maggie uh she's covered Trump longer than me, but yeah, I've been there for all the all the admin years. You know, in terms of his power, uh it is a real question, I think. And you know, this November it'll obviously be a test to that, but also it's a test of just

45:58 you know, political conventional wisdom, which is that the president, you know, after his first years in office his his party loses pretty badly uh when it comes to these congressional elections. We'll see what shapes out here. I mean, I think with the redistricting and so much that has changed in just since February alone with the war. We don't really have a good understanding and we don't know and given how wrong the polls have been and they're just a snapshot. I I do think we don't really know what's gonna happen in November. Everyone kind of assumes they know, but I think we've to wait and really see what this looks like. And so I I think for the president though and the way

46:31 He views his endorsement power, which, you know, last night he was calling Darlene Graham an underdog, saying Like he was touting his own power and acknowledging that she is not this strong political figure. In South Carolina. For him, I think it's also a test of he came into office in the second term. With so much power and able to bend Corporate executives.

46:52 Congressional Republicans Law firms Pretty much anybody to his will. But not Caitlin Collins. But go ahead. Well, um true. But hopefully that's true for anyone. Yeah, well, I mean that's a whole nother thing. But I I think that, you know, for him to be in a s in a situation where there are people who push back on him.

47:17 And he is going to be in a different world in Washington should the midterms not go his way. Will be a very different time of the Trump presidency. Is there a prediction you I think he'll cooperate. That's my feeling. Like I think he knows, right? Presumably. I think he'll go whatever way the wind blows. I think no, I don't think he'll be I think he'll I mean I think those meetings b between uh uh Jared Cushner and Hakeem Jefferies says a lot. They're gonna He's gonna try to recover himself in a different way or reinvent himself in some other way. I also think I mean this is my prediction. This isn't, you know, I mean, this is what I've heard from reporting. It's an estimated it's a educated prediction, but it's I mean, we'll have to, you know, you can't really predict too much in political reporting, you have to wait and see. Uh I don't think that they will handle congressional oversight the way they did the first time. And I think that the president hated being impeached so much, even though he says he expects it and thinks it'll happen again this time.

48:10 I think that there will be way more pushback from the DOJ and from the White House. Even than what we saw the last time around. And so I I think it will be a very different Washington, should the Democrats win and should they try to conduct these investigations. And I don't think it's totally clear that we'll actually see it in the same way we saw the first time. So dig in even more? Because Pr Oh wow, interesting. See, I think it's gonna roll right over.

48:33 I think he's a I'm not gonna say what I think he is, but I think he's a bully and he'll he gets punched in the nose, he's gonna stop. That's the I don't know, maybe not. That's why he's doing all this I'm gonna tear down the Gannaby Center foot stomp and This and that. I just think he just he knows his time is limited. I think he's very aware. He's he's very um lizard like in that way. He knows you know, he has a very good sense of where the wind is blowing in a lot of ways. One thing on an off note about the Kennedy Center, uh I re watched Dolly Parton's tribute from two thousand six last night.

49:03 And it was a reminder of how great the Kennedy Center honors are and why they're so important. They are. Because They really did provide us with like this moment of her of Reba coming out and telling this great story about when she met Dolly. And it reminded me of just how great, you know. Everyone like criticizes Washington institutions, that's one that's this lovely moment for the entire country. Do you know twenty four year old Kara Swisher covered it every year when I was at the Washington Post. Mm-hmm. I was the reporter for the I was in the style section twenty three, twenty four. Wait, I didn't know this. I love this. I was the reporter for the Washington Post. I went to all the breakfast, I covered it

49:38 John Denver I remember doing and I used to sit there and get my little quotes and Right up to Kennedy Center Honors. I loved it. What a great assignment. You're like I'll do the Kennedy Center Honors. Well they they actually like we'll send the young lady to it. Like we'll send the young people to it because all the older people are like, I'm not going out. Like that kind of. Yeah, it's like a Sunday night. It goes super late. Yeah. And by the way, the Kennedy Center, for all it's I I'm not a big fan of the look of it, honestly. But I just what's happening there is ridiculous. It's kind of ridiculous, weird. Weird flex. Like why would you flex on that? Like it just seems silly. I get the White House part. I do. in a weird way, but I don't get the other thing. Um over and under whether he's gonna get the ballroom built?

50:19 Yes, no? Oh well th I mean there's a giant hole in the ground right now, so they're definitely working on it. Um And I don't I don't I don't think I can't I just can't see them half building it and then stopping. And I I do think the question I mean it maybe it's a silly question. It's obviously not substantive and not the number one question, but Should a Democrat win after it it is a real question of what they will do with smaller. The ballroom would will be more difficult because it is smaller ballroom if it's not fully built. Smaller. They need to I mean going into the White House every day.

50:49 And I've I've covered the White House for ten years. Seeing these giant cranes, you know, it's totally it's changed the way we cover the president because his departures don't happen where, you know, chopper talk. That doesn't happen anymore out on the south lawn because we can't go out there because there's so much construction and it's taken up such a big part of it. And they're also building the helipad that he wants done by the time Chinese president Xi Jinping comes next month. Um There's a lot happening back there. Arlington Cemetery is one of the most hallowed places that you can visit. And it's beautiful. I mean, brought me to tears when I first went as a like a twenty four year old.

51:22 Um The art I think will obstruct part of the view of the cemetery, from what from my understanding of how it is. Um Which I think, you know, is a miss for people who That's a ridiculous idea. It's a beautiful place. It was Robert Ely's uh estate. It was his uh plantation, which is incredible to think about. It's a beautiful thing. You know, my dad is not buried in my dad was in the military is not burning in there, but uh I'm you know, it just is a one of the most beautiful places. Yeah, but you probably think about'em every time you go there. Every time. Every time. Um let's go on a quick break. When we come back, a golf ad that missed the mark.

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54:55 That's O D O O Caitlin, we're back with more news now on to the lovely ad from s the sports world golf focus media company Good Good Golf, and equipment maker Callaway have apologized after an ad for their golf club uh showed a male golfer shoving a woman to the ground after she reached for his club. The video was intended as a parody of the horror movie obsession. Let me tell you it is not one. Uh but uh do backlash for making light of violence against women. By the way, in that movie, the woman was murderous, okay? She wasn't like she was murderous. Good, good removed the video and apologizing Callaway acknowledged that it approved the ad before it w posted, which should have never happened. Of course, mistakes were made is not really a good excuse for like beaten up on a woman, but good good plans to donate the campaign's proceeds to an organization supporting women, no thanks, uh though they're still in the process of researching which one to give it to. Um

55:54 Talk a little bit about a room of people uh proving an ad like this. And I would like you one of the things I I know you've talked a lot about the smile thing and and the attacks that President Trump does on you, which are very complicated, I think, in a lot of ways. But one of the things I said when I was on the view when I was arguing with Sonny Hostin over this, and she's like, s everyone in the room should say something, or she should say something back. I said absolutely not. She's handling exactly right. Not having an emotion, doing her job, asking the question. If she makes it about her or a back and forth with the president, it r it's not what she should do. Talk a little because this was it'cause the the tax on you are sexist. There's just no other way around it. Um talk a little bit about this ad and and and is I assume that's why you don't respond and the w why you respond the way you do.

56:41 Which is to be a professional. Yeah. I mean, first off on the ad, I'm not in the golf world really at all. Um I was a car girl in college to make money, but other than that, that's probably an extent of my doll. It's like the person who um you're in the cart that's loaded up with beer, water, sandwiches, and you drive backwards on the course and you're basically like the rolling concession stand. Um but the golfers are always really glad to see you'cause you know, if you're out on a Big g big course in Alabama in July gets hot. Yeah. And I would always try to be like the best car curl. Like I would try I would whip her on that course. I would always remember everyone's orders.

57:15 Um it was actually a great job I was. So you didn't run behind a golf cart like say Natalie Harp, right? Correct. No, I was driving the golf cart. Okay. And it was huge and heavy and you worked like fourteen hour days and I would come and be totally exhausted. Uhhuh. Um It was good. It was a good college job and uh highly recommend it. Um, but when I saw that ad And then the respon it's always the response that like somehow makes it worse. It's like they people really don't know how to won the fact that it got approved. And people thought this is hilarious.

57:45 Is Insanity but But then the response, the mistakes were made, were researching you know, the best place to to donate this money to I mean

57:57 It's just cringeworthy. You'd think How does it get that far? And I understand, you know, sometimes people make mistakes Bad judgment calls. That seemed like a pretty obvious one where obviously like did they ask any women what they thought about that ad before they uh posted it? No. But honestly, did they ask any men? Like i I I my son saw it and he was like, Are you kidding me? So how why do you think it is is that sort of a a

58:22 A thing of Trump like manly man or or something. What do you how what do you attribute it to? I think with the with the president it's more of a power thing. Um I think that it's you know moments where we're coming into the Oval Office. To what I was just saying about how people treat him and you know, we've watched it. You see at all the cabinet meetings or With executives who come in there and they each take turns praising him, saying he's the first president who's ever done X, Y, and Z for them. Um, that is an environment that he is used to and has been for some time and doesn't face a lot of

58:53 questioning or pushback or opposition. And I mean even his own aides devise, you know, when they disagree with him, how to bring that up to him and how to talk to him about it. And so I I think that you know when people come in the Oval Office and the way they've changed the press corps

59:10 You know, there's one or two annoying people in there who were asking him questions that he doesn't like, even if they're pretty straightforward questions and they're quoting other officials, like with my colleague Christian Holmes the other day, quoting John Ossoff. Um and how the White House responded to that, which just was bizarre. Um I I think that they just it's it's the questioning that they don't like in and of itself. It's not in doesn't even really matter who it's coming from. And that's why I don't respond or react. There's always women. It's almost always women, which is well, and that's why I don't respond to react, because I don't I truly feel this and I don't think that it's about me and I don't want to make it about me, and I want to, you know, I I I'm asking a question because I want an answer to it, or because I'm trying to point something out um with the question itself. And so I never want to get bogged down in some kind of back and forth.

59:56 or argument or fight that becomes about me because I want it to stay focused on the question. And truly that has been my mentality on this for ten years now. And It's never surprising when this happens to me. It truly isn't anymore. White House Correspondents Dinner in the Oval Office, any of these moments. And so, you know. I'm there to do my job. Do you think the other reporters should say something? I don't either. I think I think they should repeat your question, perhaps. That's the only thing I can think of. But following up on questions is important. Um and taking those moments. Or you know, I remember there was a press conference during the pandemic where the president would come out and do the briefings himself.

1:00:34 And Peter Alexander was asking a question and Trump was Going off on Peter about Peter, not about the question. And then when he called on me, I kinda said, You know, people are sitting at home watching this Trying to figure out do they send their kids to school? Can they go to work?

1:00:49 Is it safe to get these groceries and bring them into their home? You know, in those early days it's no one wants to hear about this attacking a reporter. They want you who's been speaking with these officials and the doctors to give them guidance or answer their questions or like, you know, some kind of you know, national instruction of what we should be doing in this moment.

1:01:08 And I think that's, you know I just think it's always important to return to the substance. One time I was on a show and my son was in the in the green room and I Said, your mom's really smart, but she should smile more to my son. Said this to my son. Oh boy. I know, and my son was like

1:01:26 He my son goes. Are you like a hundred and fifty years old?'Cause that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard and I was like Parenting well done. That was such a fulfilling moment. Um He's like, Don't talk to my mom. Don't talk about my mom. And women don't shouldn't have to smile. Also, anyone who would say that to K Caris F I know that, exactly. Um Talk talk to a young reporter who that happens to.

1:01:54 Explain what's going through your head for just a second and what advice you would give them when that happens'cause it's I get it from the tech bros too. Yeah and you know it's It's easier to brush off the longer you've done it because I think, you know, the first time it happens to you, it's obviously jarring because you know, being a reporter In and of itself, and I I talked to a lot of young people who are graduating who wanna be in re in the reporting field. It's it can be intimidating because m by

1:02:18 Nature, what you're doing. is you are sometimes if you're covering things critically or questioning what's happening, which you should be, if it's a taxpayer funded project or official Um has always been my my position on this. is you're inherently kind of having this like you know, at odds relationship where you're asking questions they don't really want you to

1:02:37 Ask much less they don't want to answer. And so, you know, as a reporter you really do kinda have to You have to accept that you're the one person in that room who they view as like the skunk at the garden party and they don't like what you're saying. And you have to really You can't do it to be liked and you can't go in there thinking, Oh, they're gonna love my question or think it's so smart. Because one, they're never gonna be happy with what you're asking. I mean, unless you're saying, Why is this so great? Why is this such a An amazing idea. Fantastic hair do sir.

1:03:06 That kind of thing. Like people will just never be happy with that. And so I think as a young reporter You just gotta be ready and you know go in there with resolve. And I also think This is my always been my thing. Being prepared.

1:03:19 Yeah. Knowing what you're talking about, having follow up questions ready. Um knowing what that person's probably gonna say in response to your question. will give you more confidence going to any of those exchanges than anything else. You really I mean it's like you got to build it up yourself and you will over time, but being prepared always made me feel better because I would you know no matter where this goes

1:03:40 You're ready with the a follow up. You did that with the Epstein question, you know, you were like, but this happened. Uh it's hard. It's still hard. It's a very difficult thing. And but I have to say you have shown incredible poise in doing so. I think most people think that and they can't believe I would I'd not be able to if if I'd be like, Can you fucking step off, sir? Like I would be I just couldn't do it. That's why I couldn't cover it. I just I lost my ability to not talk slap back at people. Anyway, I appreciate it. Um all right, Caitlin, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. I've got a text.

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1:05:46 And on the judgment. Trusted by more than 60% of the AMLAW100 and leading Fortune 500 legal teams, Harvey is the AI operating system designed specifically for legal work. Harvey, AI Tailored for Law. Lear more at Harvey.ai. Okay, Caitlin, let's hear a prediction. Okay, so I was my first question on this was what should my prediction be in the realm of? And I guess the answer is anything. So I can truly pick any pick anything that I want to predict. Anything.

1:06:21 Aliens showing up, et cetera. I wish. Please hurry up if they're coming. I know. Like we're waiting. Um I think my prediction is gonna be about college football because we're getting closer and closer to kick off for Alabama. All right. And um you are a dude. For people to know she's an enormous so is uh Tim Cook. Yes. Well he went to Auburn though, so we're rivals. Okay, but um Yeah, right, right. But um Not really. I mean it's Auburn. Uh my sister went to Auburn too. She doesn't like when we say that. Yeah. You know what's funny is anytime I wear like orange or something on air, which you know, I live in Washington and New York, like I don't think it's that crazy. Someone from Alabama's like, why is she wearing Auburn collars tonight, y'all? It's just so funny. That is truly how we think in Alabama. Um I think my prediction is we're gonna go

1:07:04 Hopefully ten and two this season. What does that mean? Ten wins, two losses. And I'm sure one of them is gonna be some loss that leaves us all just Who would you least like to lose against? I believe it's Michigan, correct? Well that's I mean we'll see if we play them in the playoffs and what that looks like. I mean I think Uh I you know.

1:07:21 We hate to lose to Georgia. That's that's a big one for us lately. And uh one of my colleagues is a big Georgia fan. And so Yeah, I mean it's just it is the best time of the year. It is the most agonizing time of the year because people don't realize you go down there, right? You go to the Yeah, yeah, I go to a bunch of games. I try to go to as many as possible. Um It's tough. There's like one flight to Birmingham in the morning. to make kick off and I've cut it pretty close sometimes. Oh doing the show on Friday. Ten and two, whatever that means. Ten we're gonna go ten and two. That's my optimistic outlook. I'm hoping we'll make the playoffs And

1:07:54 Yeah, I mean It's tough. It I love it so much. It really is this bitter sweet. feeling and I was home actually the other day, um, driving in Alabama, listening to the FM radio, and Paul Feinbaum, who is my favorite sports talk show host that I listen to all the time growing up, listening to him and p these people call in Kara, you would love it. Um and they just argue with him. About

1:08:17 college football and the state of it and what's going on. Yeah. Yeah. It it helps bring that together. Although there was that disturbing report this week about NFL players. They've got to do something with that. They gotta do something.'Cause it starts early on. You know, I didn't Let my kids play football'cause of that. Yeah, I I think it's I mean as a parent, it's a r huge question Because it's it's terrifying and one in four, right? Yeah, and it's yeah, one in four. And it's it's no more scarier than for athletes themselves, you know, who have to reckon with this. talent that they have, this opportunity

1:08:48 to have personal success in a way that so few people can. And you know, at times can be a huge deal for them. And also with their own personal health and longevity. And you're asking, you know eighteen year olds to make this decision. Or earlier. My kids my son played touch football, which I was fine with because it was not, you know, and he was good. They were good. Both of them were big guys. And I just I ran I ran it, I think it was Roger Goodell once and he's like, Oh and I had my boys with me like oh your boys playing football. I said not if I want them to be, you know, mentally disabled by thirty three. And he was like okay. And moving nice meeting you nice meeting you. Like, Oh, okay. Just, you know. But I felt that'cause I you I agree with you. There's something very beautiful about football games and

1:09:32 you know, games and sports and uh and the and the community it brings bringing it back to the valley. There's a community of something around. Yeah, but you want to protect these athletes. Yeah. I mean that's what I care about. There's technological ways to do it. There is. They just have to start to get serious about it. Speaking of AI, there's all manner of things they could do. Yeah. And you want to protect these kids who are you know, giving their all in the field and it's just it is so special to watch. And Yeah, it is. It is. It's a great deal. Um my prediction I make a very short one. Uh you know, Rob but also about Alabama for the I'm not sure. I don't know I don't watch sports. Well let me just say my prediction is I can't wait for the the season finale of Furious, which is speaking of angry women, um, w is amazing. Um it's a show on uh Hulu. Uh but my prediction actually has to do with it's settlement that Meta made. Um this is but was led by Rob Bond to someone who you just interviewed. Um I think Param Parama doesn't settle like Right. Stop the games they're playing with all these press releases, um personal attacks, weird leaks and things like that. And they're pretending it's not them. It is them leaking.

1:10:40 all this stuff. They need to settle and m Bonta has shown his ability to settle when it makes a reasonable kind of thing. Um this guy is really uh a someone to watch and is very clever and spicy and he has got a lot he's got a lot of leverage here and they should they they uh if they're not completely idiotic, they have to stop playing games, as he said, and settle. And they should, and they will. I I I think they must and if they don't It's over. And so I I w uh that's my prediction is that they somehow someone's gonna slap the sense into these people and do the right do a thing'cause this guy is this This success with Meta is gonna make a big difference, um in a lot of stuff that he's doing. Um how did you find him? You found him he's he's something. He's something else, right? Well, I mean, you know more about all of the discussions and what's happening behind the scenes than I do, because you cover it every day. I mean, from our perspective, you know, we had the attorney general law and

1:11:36 As you know, from a reporter's perspective as an interview guest, because it is a genuine news story. And I think even though CNN is involved in it, because obviously it's our parent company, Warner Brothers, you know, we have st still approach it as a news story and still cover it as such. And so we had him on and I thought it was interesting because he was so Yeah, we asked if he had evidence about them leaking, but he was so visceral in his reaction of how he viewed how they've handled this. Um, and I I think I said to him at one point, you know, it doesn't sound like you you really want to settle with them. Or th that you're in the environment for that, I guess I should say, um, given where things had broken down to at that moment. And so obviously we'll see what happens, but he seemed My uh my understanding from his appearance on the show the other night was that he seemed very confident of his position. He has a good position. And so obviously we will see.

1:12:24 Where it goes from here. Some of it's sabre rattling, some of it's this and that. But A hundred percent. That's who leaked. I can tell you that. But it was really um actually his office is tight as a tick, I have to say. I've tried my m various ways to get in there. And uh they're much tighter. Paramount is a leaky leaky sieve of the place. Sorry, David. I David is always surprised by that, but it is. All media companies are leaky sieves and they are excellent for reporters to do. And but I it was a very good interview you did with him. It was really interesting. Anyway, I suspect there'll be a settlement because Come on, stop it.

1:12:58 Stop it, boys. That's enough. That's enough of that. You you want to care about people's jobs and about chaos and things like that. So Well football season goes through January if we make the playoffs, the national championship, so we'll see whose prediction bears out first. All right, okay, we'll do that. I think yours is probably well. You can't knock sense into people. Well now you got a room for Alabama. No, I can't because my son's at Michigan. Oh. Are they they're a rival, right? They're a big rival. I mean I'm going to Michigan game on Parents Weekend. I'm sorry to give you that information. You're gonna have so much fun. I mean I I mean, I love college football period, so you're gonna have so much fun, but uh Michigan did beat us in Nick Sabin's last game before he retired. So I'm still taking that one personally. Yeah, I don't really care who wins, honestly.

1:13:41 Caitlin, I don't I don't but don't that statement pains me. Go someone, a friend of mine who I've converted to being an Alabama football fan, he was in Greece and he said he saw a guy wearing an Auburn shirt the other day and he goes, F Auburn. And the guy was so caught off guard by this like random person in Greece going after him. I was like, I love that we have spread it and we have got an army of Alabama fans out there. I'll consider it. I'll I don't I'm not a very good fan in terms of The only person I'm a fan of right now is Dolly Friggin Parton. What a legend. What a legend and again. Dolly, you are what a what a life well lived. And what a saint.

1:14:16 Yeah, and also what a great reminder of how to live your life. And the fact that we got to exist on the same planet as her is so special to me. And I completely mean that. That's what I thought. We got to exist on the same planet. Yeah. Like how cool is that? We shared the same existence as Diana. It's true. It's amazing. No fucks given in the most kind way possible. And that's the curve of kindness. That's such a good encapsulation, actually, for I love that. Yeah, but lots of fucks given too. Which is anyway. All right, on on the things that count. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your question about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com uh slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call eight five five five one pivot. Uh Caitlin, thank you so much. You're wonderful. I really think you're one of my I got my mother to watch you. Uh she was a Fox she's a Fox News person, it is always on her thing and I change it and she goes, put that nice

1:15:08 I I I am sorry to objectivize she was that very good looking young woman. I love her. She's really Tom is allowed to objectivize. I know that's I'm fine because she's so superficial. Well I love that. Thank you for having me. It's been good for Scott. You could have a career in podcasting. You may think about it. You're pretty good. You're pretty good. I give you an A. Um, and uh that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Today's show was produced by Lara Nayman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Todd Wiseman. Ernie Anderdot engineered this episode. Nishad Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast. platform and also watch the source with Caitlin Collins on CNN because every night at nine o'clock Eastern. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Support for the show comes from O Do.

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